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Thread: 2014 New Zealand Election thread

  1. #166
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    Edit - I hope that all is good between us Hendrix and your grammatical critique isn't a symptom of something I've done to offend you in some other thread. Just seems a surprising thing to pull someone up for so it got me wondering.
    Of course all is good!

    I'm just making the point that saying Big Business in capitals like that removes the actual specificity and descriptiveness of a term to the level where it becomes meaningless. There's no need to have Big Business with a capital B when we can just use normal everyday English to describe what we mean - and this way we don't present any pre-bias or stigma to our argument.

  2. #167
    Cricketer Of The Year Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    Of course all is good!

    I'm just making the point that saying Big Business in capitals like that removes the actual specificity and descriptiveness of a term to the level where it becomes meaningless. There's no need to have Big Business with a capital B when we can just use normal everyday English to describe what we mean - and this way we don't present any pre-bias or stigma to our argument.
    All good - thanks for your post. I had been a bit worried that I had been a bit off handed in the rugby thread a month ago so hence I thought I would ask.

    I am fine with your comments /clarification - cheers.
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  3. #168
    Cricketer Of The Year Hurricane's Avatar
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    I want to have my say:

    David Cunliffe is being an idiot by not ruling out working with the Internet Mana party. You must have principles even in politics and doing a deal with those guys shows you have no values.

    I have no issue with doing a deal with the Mana party - just doing a deal with the transparent - don't extradite me - Kim dot com.

  4. #169
    International Coach HeathDavisSpeed's Avatar
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    We live in a democracy, Hurricane. If people want to vote for Dotcom's party then that party deserves a voice.

    Cunliffe has to be practical. He can't run the country with Labour alone. He's already ruled out Internet-Mana being a part of the government, but if they're in parliament anyway then they will get a vote anyway so if you can work with them, why not do so?
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  5. #170
    International Captain wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    but dotcom is rich, overweight and has a funny voice he must be evil
    Exit pursuing a beer

  6. #171
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    We live in a democracy, Hurricane. If people want to vote for Dotcom's party then that party deserves a voice.

    Cunliffe has to be practical. He can't run the country with Labour alone. He's already ruled out Internet-Mana being a part of the government, but if they're in parliament anyway then they will get a vote anyway so if you can work with them, why not do so?
    I may be wrong but I think Hurricane's issue stems from the belief that Dotcom's starting position in negotiations will be "my party will vote for all your bills if you don't extradite me" which lies in a pretty grey area between standard horse-trading and outright corruption.
    Last edited by Prince EWS; 10-08-2014 at 03:22 AM.
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  7. #172
    Cricketer Of The Year Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    We live in a democracy, Hurricane. If people want to vote for Dotcom's party then that party deserves a voice.

    Cunliffe has to be practical. He can't run the country with Labour alone. He's already ruled out Internet-Mana being a part of the government, but if they're in parliament anyway then they will get a vote anyway so if you can work with them, why not do so?
    This is from a quick google of ACT's confidence and supply agreement with National

    "ACT New Zealand agrees to provide confidence and supply through positive votes of support for the term of this Parliament to a National-led Government in return for National's agreement to the policy programme and other matters set out in this document."

    Labour does a deal with Internet Mana then Kim dot com may get to achieve some of his agenda.

    Secondly it is counter productive for Labour anyway. They take a strong stand and just say no to this alliance and more people will vote for them anyway.

  8. #173
    Cricketer Of The Year Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    I may be wrong but I think Hurricane's issue stems from the believe that Dotcom's starting position in negotiations will be "my party will vote for all your bills if you don't extradite me" which lies in a pretty grey area between standard horse-trading and outright corruption.
    Yes. This.

  9. #174
    International Coach HeathDavisSpeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    I may be wrong but I think Hurricane's issue stems from the belief that Dotcom's starting position in negotiations will be "my party will vote for all your bills if you don't extradite me" which lies in a pretty grey area between standard horse-trading and outright corruption.
    He might think that, but the chances of that happening are Nil and strike me as paranoid. He doesn't even run the party. Once he's bankrolled Internet-Mana to 2-5 seats in Parliament and they no longer need his cash, do you seriously think their first policy act is going to be some bizarre piece of legislation which prevents him being extradited? Even if that were the case, you think that there wouldn't be a backbench Labour rebellion to prevent that happening.

    Scaremongering. Absolute scaremongering. I wouldn't vote for Internet-Mana myself, but not because of Hurricane's fears.

  10. #175
    Cricketer Of The Year Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    He might think that, but the chances of that happening are Nil and strike me as paranoid. He doesn't even run the party. Once he's bankrolled Internet-Mana to 2-5 seats in Parliament and they no longer need his cash, do you seriously think their first policy act is going to be some bizarre piece of legislation which prevents him being extradited? Even if that were the case, you think that there wouldn't be a backbench Labour rebellion to prevent that happening.

    Scaremongering. Absolute scaremongering. I wouldn't vote for Internet-Mana myself, but not because of Hurricane's fears.
    a) Non Extradition is just one issue he could insist on. And all of his conditions would be unsavoury.
    b) I don't believe it will require legislation to block the extradition. Just the PM making a few phone calls. I could be wrong.

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    We live in a democracy, Hurricane. If people want to vote for Dotcom's party then that party deserves a voice.
    The problem is a lot of people I know, i.e. 'young adults' have expressed that they might vote for the party, simply because he's thrown some pretty sik partiez up and down the country, not bothering to get into their actual policies. But then most people in the country probably know **** all of the main parties policies as it is so maybe trolls in the parliament might be entertaining.
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  12. #177
    Hall of Fame Member NZTailender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    He might think that, but the chances of that happening are Nil and strike me as paranoid. He doesn't even run the party. Once he's bankrolled Internet-Mana to 2-5 seats in Parliament and they no longer need his cash, do you seriously think their first policy act is going to be some bizarre piece of legislation which prevents him being extradited? Even if that were the case, you think that there wouldn't be a backbench Labour rebellion to prevent that happening.

    Scaremongering. Absolute scaremongering. I wouldn't vote for Internet-Mana myself, but not because of Hurricane's fears.
    Pretty sure .com's motivation in all of this is just to annoy Key and have someone in parliament give him **** for 3 years. He's buying their way in.

  13. #178
    International Coach HeathDavisSpeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    a) Non Extradition is just one issue he could insist on. And all of his conditions would be unsavoury.
    b) I don't believe it will require legislation to block the extradition. Just the PM making a few phone calls. I could be wrong.
    All of his conditions could be unsavoury? If that were the case, Labour wouldn't make the deal, neither side of the divide could form a government and there'd be another election, Dotcom would have been 'found out' and that would be the end of Internet-Mana.

  14. #179
    International Coach HeathDavisSpeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZTailender View Post
    The problem is a lot of people I know, i.e. 'young adults' have expressed that they might vote for the party, simply because he's thrown some pretty sik partiez up and down the country, not bothering to get into their actual policies. But then most people in the country probably know **** all of the main parties policies as it is so maybe trolls in the parliament might be entertaining.
    Tbf, I think a good chunk of their policies appeal to such young adults as well.

  15. #180
    Cricketer Of The Year Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZTailender View Post
    Pretty sure .com's motivation in all of this is just to annoy Key and have someone in parliament give him **** for 3 years. He's buying their way in.
    The key commentators at the time when he entered politics all speculated that his motivations were to avoid extradition. Don't ask me for quotes to back that up.

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