Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 45

Thread: When does a song become a classic?

  1. #1
    Cricket Web Staff Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    2,734

    When does a song become a classic?

    A couple of days ago a co-worker in her mid-20s glanced through this playlist of mine:-

    Killers – All These Things That I’ve Done
    Surfjan Stevens - Chicago
    TV on the Radio – Dancing Choose
    Justice – DVNO
    Lupe Fiasco – Daydreamin
    Ms Dynamite – Dy-Na-Mi-Tee
    Arctic Monkeys – Fake Tales of San Francisco
    Flaming Lips – Fight Test
    Doves - Pounding
    WIlco – I Am Trying to Break Your Heart
    Richard Hawley – I Sleep Alone
    White Stripes – In the Cold, Cold Night
    Goldfrapp – Little Bird
    Elbow – Mirrorball
    Arcade Fire - Rebellion (Lies)
    Turin Brakes – Slack
    Beck – Paper Tiger
    Rufus Wainwright – Peach Tree
    Pineapple Thief – Remember Us
    Drive-By Truckers – Ronnie and Neil
    LCD Soundsystem – Someone Great
    Icarus Line – Spike Island
    Animal Collective – Summertime Clothes
    Nick Cave & Bad Seeds – There She Goes, My Beautiful World
    Fleet Foxes – Your Protector
    Mylo – Zenophile
    Radiohead – 15 Step

    Her comment - "Definitely some of the classics in there!".

    So to the question in the topic subject - when does a song become a classic?

    At my advanced age, I consider "classics" to be from the 60s to the 80s, possibly early 90s. After that, I tend to think of them as relatively new. Shouldn't a song earn the title "classic" based on its own longevity, rather than that of the listener?

    Or is it simply a mark of quality, e.g. a great song from 2010 say could be an instant classic?

    Suppose it depends on your definition of classic.

    With apologies if this has been discussed previously.

  2. #2
    cpr
    cpr is offline
    International Coach cpr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cheshire
    Posts
    10,092
    A song can become an 'instant classic' if it really captures a moment in time - eg Three Lions in '96, the obvious ones like Band Aid etc. Those are few and far between, and not on your list.

    To earn the classic title the traditional way, the song needs to endure, naturally, and either represent a band (Smells Like Teen Spirit), an era (Puple Haze), a sound (Bohemian Rhapsody), an emotion (Layla)..... It can be anything, but its a connection that sets it on a pedestal above its peers. Newer songs struggle, as time is what gives it its gravitas (that and most stuff nowadays is **** in comparison!), but its faesable if it really captures the heart for something new to be a classic.

    Half those songs would struggle to be classics in that artists own back catelogue, not like its the big name songs you've been listening to
    Last edited by cpr; 23-08-2012 at 05:45 PM.
    "All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is called a philosopher." - Ambrose Bierce
    Langeveldt: I of course blame their parents.. and unchecked immigration!
    GingerFurball: He's Austrian, they tend to produce the odd ****ed up individual
    Burgey: Be careful dealing with neighbours whose cars don't have wheels but whose houses do.
    Uppercut: Maybe I just need better strippers

  3. #3
    International Coach PhoenixFire's Avatar
    Curveball Champion!
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Bitch please, I'm from West Yorkshire
    Posts
    14,988
    Quote Originally Posted by cpr View Post
    (that and most stuff nowadays is **** in comparison!),
    imma get so riled if you're being serious
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    1) Had double pneumonia as a kid, as did my twin sis. Doctors told my parents to pray that we lived through the night. Dad said **** off, I'm an atheist, you ****s better save my kids, etc. Then prayed anyway.

  4. #4
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Posts
    23,182
    In some ways, it's a pointless discussion. Songs that are known as 'classics' generally have been made so by sweetheart royalty deals signed decades ago which guarantees they appear on commercial radio playlists. They form a default brick wall of songs which get played to death and, in the cracks of that wall at specific timeslots, only then does new music get played which, again, are all subject to the deals signed by majors with radio stations to get them on playlists. Only on small community radio stations do playlists not apply in a blanket sense and some of the bigger ones do use them. It means guaranteed airplay according to the whims of the record companies.

    The point; what are 'classic' songs has been largely manufactured. Play something often enough and it'll start to be regarded as a 'classic', regardless of artistic merit. Not bagging the system, it is what it is.
    The Colourphonics

    Bandcamp
    Twitderp


  5. #5
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    A Blood Rainbow
    Posts
    32,592
    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixFire View Post
    imma get so riled if you're being serious
    If he's talking about pop music, it's quite a popular school of thought in music circles that, even accounting for hipster bias, the quality of modern pop music is unusually poor, superficial and transitive.
    + time's fickle card game ~ with you and i +


    get ready for a broken ****in' arm

  6. #6
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Posts
    23,182
    I, personally, would argue that market and industry conditions have changed so much to render pop music comparison between now and even a decade ago pretty much moot. The comparison is harder the further back you go. Superficial sugary crap purely to play to the masses is absolutely nothing new. There's a lot more of it, absolutely, but there's also just more music in general to choose from. A lot of niche genres now would have been niche one-band genres in the 70's. It's a tough thing to quantify, though. Yes Stairway to Heaven was on the pop charts but, well, there was nowhere else for it to go. Would it even chart now? Doubt it. Got nothing to do with the quality of the song but how the industry gets songs on the radio/TV these days.

    One thing I do remember seeing was an experiment a few years back where several examples of songs with artistic merit scored by the experimenters were sampled from multiple eras. The same songs had their sonic quality changed via equalisation, volume boosting, degradation of bitrates, multiple file formats, etc. to give various good and bad quality recordings of the songs. The songs were played to people, the quality of the recording was the experimental manipulation here.

    They found that, broadly speaking, songs which were considered pap scored highly with the best quality recordings but the crap quality meant the scores dropped off heaps. The 'good' songs, their scores weren't affected much at all. Being cautious, you could say the quality of the song does matter to people but what people get exposed to on a regular basis now is what's vastly different.

    The country of exposure matters too. My band's album got some great reviews and airplay in The Netherlands, Belgium, Germany and Poland. In the US, we got some college radio play and a couple of quick mentions elsewhere (e.g. http://www.goldminemag.com/blogs/pro...new-label-home), in OZ we got one review and absolutely zero interest from independent record companies so we had to sign to an American one just to get any distribution. It changes drastically too; every indie band with a glockenspiel/melodica gets killed to death on JJJ now whereas the same bands were playing to 5 people in the 90's. Conversely, every angsty garage band which would have dominated then is working their arses off to scrape together 20 people for a show now.

    Can't help but feel a bit rejected....
    Last edited by Top_Cat; 23-08-2012 at 07:27 PM.

  7. #7
    International Captain wellAlbidarned's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    away from the palms
    Posts
    6,399
    In my opinion the concept of universally agreed "classics" no longer exists because there's such an enormous variety of popular music completely off the radar of the whole "record label and charts" system. In the past, however, people were comparatively force-fed music in a narrow stream which meant it was possible for good music to attain incredible status.
    Exit pursuing a beer

  8. #8
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    A Blood Rainbow
    Posts
    32,592
    Yep, indeed. The notion of "classic" is now very much genre-dependent; and often knowledge of said 'classic' outside its genre is minimal.

  9. #9
    International Coach uvelocity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    seamy road
    Posts
    11,849
    I'm old. music is too hard now
    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    I just love all kinds of balls.

  10. #10
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Spikey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    All Glory To The Nev
    Posts
    32,993
    call me maybe is already classic
    Indians can't bowl - Where has the rumour come from as I myself and many indian friends arwe competent fast bowlers ?

    With the English bid I said: Let us be brief. If you give back the Falkland Islands, which belong to us, you will get my vote. They then became sad and left

  11. #11
    International Coach uvelocity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    seamy road
    Posts
    11,849

  12. #12
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Locked up inside my opium den, surrounded by some Chinamen
    Posts
    45,254
    Some absolute quality stuff in ctd's playlist, but personally then only one I'd have in consideration for "classic" status would be All These Things That I've Done. & this from someone who's choked back tears to I Am Trying To Break Your Heart.

    The former was one of those opening shots that immediately makes one sit up and think "woah, who the **** is this?" Some songs have such an immediacy and such a (wholly ironic, given the first quality) depth to stand up to repeat playings that they act like an adrenaline shot. Mind Over Money by Turin Brakes was another, as was Newborn by Elbow.

    Neil Tennant (him out of the Pet Shop Boys) described what makes an immediate classic best, he bought the 12" version of Blue Monday with no great expectation because he'd quite liked Everything's Gone Green and when he played it he said it was so perfect and so close to what his own nascent band was trying to do that he went away and binned two album's worth of material because he knew nothing he'd written was in the same ballpark.
    Cricket Web's 2013/14 Premier League Tipping Champion

    - As featured in The Independent.

    "I don't believe a word of Pietersen's book, but then I don't believe a word anyone else has said either."
    - Simon Barnes renders further comment on KP's autobiography superfluous in a sentence

  13. #13
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Posts
    23,182
    FYI we got another good review a few months back I didn't know about from an Amazon reviewer.

    Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: The Colourphonics

  14. #14
    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Moeen is a perfectly fine bowler FFS.
    Posts
    15,578
    Classics are different, for different people though. I post a bit on Digital Spy, and it certainly gives me interesting views for music. Tends to be very pop orientated. I read a serious long post, not txt spk or anything about how the Spice Girls and S Club (FFS) were the classic groups now, because they were on the radio all the time, and were a decade or so old, so they've stood the test of time, and the likes of the Beatles and the Stones were invisible. People agreed with her.

    Presumably she only listens to Heart and Heat FM, yet it's amazing how venerated these "bands" are in some places.

    So I dunno really, and I can't judge coz I think Hersham Boys & Echo Beach are "classics".
    Do I contradict myself?
    Very well then I contradict myself,
    (I am large, I contain multitudes.
    Walt Whitman

  15. #15
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
    Tournaments Won: 1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    .
    Posts
    23,692
    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    If he's talking about pop music, it's quite a popular school of thought in music circles that, even accounting for hipster bias, the quality of modern pop music is unusually poor, superficial and transitive.
    I like pop now more than I ever have in the past, despite getting to the age where I should really have grown out of it. I'm not sure why. "Better" music just feels a bit pretentious to me lately.
    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    The Filth have comfortably the better bowling. But the Gash have the batting. Might be quite good to watch.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. A forum for Classic threads.
    By Cevno in forum Site Discussion
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 01-06-2011, 04:56 AM
  2. Team India Theme Song
    By Turbinator in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 06-01-2011, 09:39 AM
  3. 'Love the way you bat' (lets make a song!)
    By AlanJLegend in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 19-08-2010, 08:37 AM
  4. World Cup theme song
    By Sir Alex in forum 2010 ICC World Twenty20 - West Indies
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-05-2010, 10:49 AM
  5. Immigrant Song
    By Steulen in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 13-02-2010, 09:13 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •