Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 73

Thread: It was 30 years ago today ............

  1. #16
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Locked up inside my opium den, surrounded by some Chinamen
    Posts
    44,909
    Quote Originally Posted by wpdavid View Post
    Seems as good a reason as any to give this an airing

    Elvis Costello - Shipbuilding - YouTube
    It's such a hauntingly wonderful & powerful song, that; still makes the hairs on my neck stand up. Costello's finest moment IMHO.

    As to the conflict, I'm not sure how I feel. Ceding British sovreign territory to a fascist nation (as Argentina was in 1982) who sought to take it by force just doesn't feel right instinctively.
    Cricket Web's 2013/14 Premier League Tipping Champion

    - As featured in The Independent.

    "The committee discussed the issue of illegal bowling actions, and believed that there are a number of bowlers currently employing suspect actions in international cricket, and that the ICC's reporting and testing procedures are not adequately scrutinising these bowlers."
    - Even the ICC's own official press release thinks things must change

  2. #17
    U19 Debutant
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Tokyo/London
    Posts
    329
    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    The islands are self-evidently Argentinian
    I totally agree with everything else you said, but I question this.

    If the Falklands are "self-evidently" Argentinian, then are the Channel Islands self-evidently French, and Gibraltar self-evidently Spanish, and, by extension, Taiwan self-evidently Chinese, or Kuwait self-evidently Iraqi? Is Alaska self-evidently Canadian?

    Accidents of history happen, and geography doesn't make these things "self-evident."

    For me, personally, the Falklands War turned out to be a defining event in my life, While the British navy was off killing people over those random rocks, I was out drinking with a friend in London. Seeing a pub bedecked with Union Jacks, and disgusted by the "Kill an Argie and Win a Mini Metro" culture, I said something along the lines of "I hate this country and would rather be anywhere else than here today." My friend pulled out a copy of the Grauniad and pointed me at the Jobs Abroad section. I picked one at random -- and I've spent a total of eight of the subsequent 30 years in the UK. Thank you, Maggie, you changed my life.

    But nevertheless, and I am conflicted with this, I don't think the Falklands are "self-evidently" Argentinian.
    Last edited by nick-o; 02-04-2012 at 12:16 PM.

  3. #18
    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    C A D E N C E
    Posts
    31,370
    Quote Originally Posted by nick-o View Post
    I totally agree with everything else you said, but I question this.

    If the Falklands are "self-evidently" Argentinian, then are the Channel Islands self-evidently French, and Gibraltar self-evidently Spanish, and, by extension, Taiwan self-evidently Chinese, or Kuwait self-evidently Iraqi? Is Alaska self-evidently Canadian?

    Accidents of history happen, and geography doesn't make these things "self-evident."

    For me, personally, the Falklands War turned out to be a defining event in my life, While the British navy was off killing people over those random rocks, I was out drinking with a friend in London. Seeing a pub bedecked with Union Jacks, and disgusted by the "Kill an Argie and Win a Mini Metro" culture, I said something along the lines of "I hate this country and would rather be anywhere else than here today." My friend pulled out a copy of the Grauniad and pointed me at the Jobs Abroad section. I picked one at random -- and I've spent a total of eight of the subsequent 30 years in the UK. Thank you, Maggie, you changed my life.

    But nevertheless, and I am conflicted with this, I don't think the Falklands are "self-evidently" Argentinian.
    I'd be inclined to agree. Using this reasoning we could claim that the Faroe Islands are self-evidently British.

  4. #19
    Cricketer Of The Year wpdavid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    8,838
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    It's such a hauntingly wonderful & powerful song, that; still makes the hairs on my neck stand up. Costello's finest moment IMHO.

    As to the conflict, I'm not sure how I feel. Ceding British sovreign territory to a fascist nation (as Argentina was in 1982) who sought to take it by force just doesn't feel right instinctively.
    Indeed. However, there were, iirc, diplomatic routes that Thatcher wasn't interested in pursuing. My memory being what it is, I'll need someone else to provide details though.

    btw - do I take it that you're also familiar with the Robert Wyatt version of 'Shipbuilding'?.


  5. #20
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Cloud Cuckoo Land
    Posts
    11,810
    Quote Originally Posted by nick-o View Post
    I totally agree with everything else you said, but I question this.

    If the Falklands are "self-evidently" Argentinian, then are the Channel Islands self-evidently French, and Gibraltar self-evidently Spanish, and, by extension, Taiwan self-evidently Chinese, or Kuwait self-evidently Iraqi? Is Alaska self-evidently Canadian?

    Accidents of history happen, and geography doesn't make these things "self-evident."

    For me, personally, the Falklands War turned out to be a defining event in my life, While the British navy was off killing people over those random rocks, I was out drinking with a friend in London. Seeing a pub bedecked with Union Jacks, and disgusted by the "Kill an Argie and Win a Mini Metro" culture, I said something along the lines of "I hate this country and would rather be anywhere else than here today." My friend pulled out a copy of the Grauniad and pointed me at the Jobs Abroad section. I picked one at random -- and I've spent a total of eight of the subsequent 30 years in the UK. Thank you, Maggie, you changed my life.

    But nevertheless, and I am conflicted with this, I don't think the Falklands are "self-evidently" Argentinian.
    On re-reading my earlier posts I may have been a bit intemperate in this thread - but nothing in my entire life has ever made me as angry as this shameful episode - I remember early on in the conflict being sat in a coffee bar at Uni with about 70 other students when someone ran in and announced, to howls of general approval, that the Task Force had sunk what turned out to be an Argentinian fishing vessel - you obviously know exactly how I felt!

    As to whether the islands are Argentinian or not if memory serves that's the closest nation to them so afaic they are theirs, they certainly aren't an independent nation on any interpretation

    If France wanted the Channel Islands then for mine they'd be welcome to them and the same for your other examples - Empire building (and maintaining) is sooooo 19th century don't you think?

  6. #21
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Anyone But England
    Posts
    19,733
    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    If France wanted the Channel Islands then for mine they'd be welcome to them and the same for your other examples - Empire building (and maintaining) is sooooo 19th century don't you think?
    IMO the right to self-determination of the people over-rides all of that, and is why the Falklands are British.

  7. #22
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Cloud Cuckoo Land
    Posts
    11,810
    Quote Originally Posted by GingerFurball View Post
    IMO the right to self-determination of the people over-rides all of that, and is why the Falklands are British.
    Like in Ireland you mean?

  8. #23
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Anyone But England
    Posts
    19,733
    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    Like in Ireland you mean?
    Precisely.

  9. #24
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Locked up inside my opium den, surrounded by some Chinamen
    Posts
    44,909
    Quote Originally Posted by wpdavid View Post
    Indeed. However, there were, iirc, diplomatic routes that Thatcher wasn't interested in pursuing. My memory being what it is, I'll need someone else to provide details though.

    btw - do I take it that you're also familiar with the Robert Wyatt version of 'Shipbuilding'?.
    Yeah, as I understand it was the original version, despite it being a Costello/Langer composition. I only heard it several years after Elvis's version tho. Bedders's double bass on the Wyatt version is godlike. In fact when I first heard it I thought it was Pentangle's ubergenius Danny Thompson's work.

    Wyatt's voice something of an acquired taste.

  10. #25
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Jason Koumas is having a party
    Posts
    48,065
    Falkands War showcased one of Merseyside's favourite newspaper's finest hours

    "It was an easy decision to sign. I could have gone elsewhere, I had calls, but it never entered my mind it's not about the money."
    Jason Koumas

    SWA

    RIP Craigos. A true CW legend. You will be missed.

  11. #26
    Cricketer Of The Year Agent Nationaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    9,703
    I agree with Furby on this. The local population should always have the right to decide on their own sovereignty otherwise Taiwan would now be part of China and Britain could not have been able to do anything about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Yeah, look, it gives me a pain deep inside my uterus to admit it, but it's Ajmal until such time as we get a working throwing law again.
    Never in a million years would I have thought Brumby to admit this!!!!!!

  12. #27
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Cloud Cuckoo Land
    Posts
    11,810
    The self-determination stuff is all a smokescreen though - if what was within the islands territorial waters was of no interest then the islands would've been Argentinian years before Thatcher's stunt

  13. #28
    Cricketer Of The Year four_or_six's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    9,189
    I was pretty ambivalent towards this until my partner's Dad went to work there. Now having heard loads about the Falklands and the people who live there I can't see any way in which they should be part of Argentina. The people there are British, many of the families have lived there well over five generations, and the only people with a South American background there are Chilean people who have gone over to work. The situation there at the moment is pretty bad. From what I understand Argentina is attempting to stop all trade with the islands, the people there now have limited fresh fruit/vegetables for example, and there are a lot of other agressive moves being made against any company that has links to the Falklands.

    Should all those young British and Argentinian men have died over some rocky outcrop? Definitely not. But that doesn't mean that just because some despot leader is trying to create a diversion over things going on in her own country, Britain should sell out those guys that live down there.

  14. #29
    Cricketer Of The Year Agent Nationaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    9,703
    It's Argentina's right if they want to stop trade. No one should complain about that.

  15. #30
    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    C A D E N C E
    Posts
    31,370
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Nationaux View Post
    It's Argentina's right if they want to stop trade. No one should complain about that.
    Why not? I see no reason why it shouldn't be open to criticism.

    EDIT: And actually, if they apply a trade policy which is in anyway discriminatory to a particular nation, it'll be illegal. And so it's actually incredibly open to criticism.
    Last edited by sledger; 02-04-2012 at 01:41 PM.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 32
    Last Post: 20-02-2010, 08:13 AM
  2. The best batsman, across years and formats
    By Ilovecric in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 05-01-2010, 05:11 PM
  3. Surrey 2002: A Cricket Captain Diary
    By SIX AND OUT in forum General
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 17-02-2005, 08:25 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •