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Thread: Child Pornography

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    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    Child Pornography

    Was having a look at various forms of media and broadcasting regulations the other day, and came across an interesting deviation in the laws regarding this subject between Europe and the USA.

    Europe has a very broad definition of what constitutes child pornography, so far as much that any "realistic computer generated image of a non-existent child" will satisfy the definition, and thus anyone caught accessing material of this sort will face the various criminal sanctions associated with this sort of behaviour.

    However, similar attempts to introduce such a rule in the USA have been deemed to be against the first amendment and blocked. Normally I would agree with this sort of logic, but...in this instance, surely allowing these sorts of graphic "fake" images and so on is just gratifying the demand for "real" content of this sort. The US Supreme Court has rejected this argument, saying there is no evidence showing that this is the case at all...but this doesn't sit particularly well with me.

    Thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    Was having a look at various forms of...

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Howe_zat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    Was having a look at various forms of media and broadcasting regulations the other day, and came across an interesting deviation in the laws regarding this subject between Europe and the USA.

    Europe has a very broad definition of what constitutes child pornography, so far as much that any "realistic computer generated image of a non-existent child" will satisfy the definition, and thus anyone caught accessing material of this sort will face the various criminal sanctions associated with this sort of behaviour.

    However, similar attempts to introduce such a rule in the USA have been deemed to be against the first amendment and blocked. Normally I would agree with this sort of logic, but...in this instance, surely allowing these sorts of graphic "fake" images and so on is just gratifying the demand for "real" content of this sort. The US Supreme Court has rejected this argument, saying there is no evidence showing that this is the case at all...but this doesn't sit particularly well with me.

    Thoughts?
    The bolded part is the crux of the question, and to me it sounds rather spurious. Unless there's real evidence to suggest otherwise I'm likely to side with the American pov.

    The law is of course there to protect the children involved, so when you hear cases like someone being pulled up and put on the sex offenders' register for a tasteless joke picture of Bart Simpson*, then some logic has been bypassed there.

    *for example. I'm quite sure this is a real, recent case but I can't find it
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    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Having been involved in a number of these cases over the years I have no doubt at all that sledger is 100% correct - it should be illegal to possess anything that might foster in anyone an interest in "real" child pornography and the criminal courts should come down on anyone so convicted like the proverbial ton of bricks


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    Cricket Web Staff Member Howe_zat's Avatar
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    Yeah, If you reckon there's a trend then I'll take your word for it.

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    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howe_zat View Post
    The bolded part is the crux of the question, and to me it sounds rather spurious. Unless there's real evidence to suggest otherwise I'm likely to side with the American pov.

    The law is of course there to protect the children involved, so when you hear cases like someone being pulled up and put on the sex offenders' register for a tasteless joke picture of Bart Simpson*, then some logic has been bypassed there.

    *for example. I'm quite sure this is a real, recent case but I can't find it
    Has the whiff of an urban legend, I have to say. There's lots of links to various professionally outraged bloggers saying how disgraceful it is, but I couldn't find a link to a credible news source.

    Might be wrong, but you know how t'interwbez is.

    Anyway, I'd back a ban on CG kiddie porn. The fact is that non-real images can be titillating. Why do Lara Croft or Blood Rayne look like they do? It's to please gamers & hand shandy enthusiasts, whose Venn diagrams have a lot of overlap, I imagine.

    Same deal with psuedo kiddie muck; it's only there for one reason.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    The pattern with sex offenders is usually the same. Because they know what they are doing is wrong they have trouble actually bringing themselves to do what they want to do, so it takes a while for them to pluck up the courage to cross the line - once they cross it though they're there for good and they then need to gather the confidence to cross the next line and so on

    So the steps might be
    apparently innocent photographs>>>>>>>narrative stories>>>>>>>>indecent drawings>>>>>>>hentai style cartoons>>>>>>indecent images>>>hardcore pornography>>>>>touching through clothing>>>>>>sexual assault>>>>>>>assault by penetration>>>>>>>>rape

    IMO anything that keeps these bastards from crossing too many lines has to be worthwhile and the human rights bleeding hearts, who I generally back 100%, can GAGF where kiddyfiddlers are concerned

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

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    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    Having been involved in a number of these cases over the years....

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Was a push a few years back to even stop calling it child 'porn', confers upon it a legitimacy it obviously doesn't deserve. 'Documented child abuse', the term proposed. Not quite as catchy in operational environments......

    Speaking of, obviously most of you wouldn't be aware of the sensitivities involved but it's considered incredibly poor form to give someone **** when they say they've 'been involved in' or similar when it comes to sex offenses. Some people believe (and feel free to voice....) that those of us who've been on the good team with this sort of stuff have as prurient an interest in the material as the crooks themselves, make jokes about only getting a job because you get access to the 'good stuff', etc. I can honestly say that having to deal directly with material of this nature is stressful enough and gags like that really hurt.

    Daemon, I know you're only ribbing so don't take this as a dig, mate. Just want to make everyone aware of the sensitivities involved. It's a hard enough part of the job, probably the only one in coppering where you're dealing with victims regularly on a long-term basis (****, I'm out and have been for 4 years, still get calls/texts) so jokes about it are tougher to deal with, honestly.

    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Has the whiff of an urban legend, I have to say. There's lots of links to various professionally outraged bloggers saying how disgraceful it is, but I couldn't find a link to a credible news source.

    Might be wrong, but you know how t'interwbez is.
    Your mileage may vary where you are but I was on the team which did this pinch. Here, doesn't even have to be depicted pictorially to be CP.

    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    The pattern with sex offenders is usually the same. Because they know what they are doing is wrong they have trouble actually bringing themselves to do what they want to do, so it takes a while for them to pluck up the courage to cross the line - once they cross it though they're there for good and they then need to gather the confidence to cross the next line and so on

    So the steps might be
    apparently innocent photographs>>>>>>>narrative stories>>>>>>>>indecent drawings>>>>>>>hentai style cartoons>>>>>>indecent images>>>hardcore pornography>>>>>touching through clothing>>>>>>sexual assault>>>>>>>assault by penetration>>>>>>>>rape

    IMO anything that keeps these bastards from crossing too many lines has to be worthwhile and the human rights bleeding hearts, who I generally back 100%, can GAGF where kiddyfiddlers are concerned
    Yep, I'd back that progression pretty much word-for-word.

    Incidentally, for what the media will say is a massive/growing problem, it doesn't attract much in the way of research $. Strange because, well, with crooks locked up for stuff like this, you generally have a pretty 'captive' audience for study. My sense is that a lot of people don't want to get involved because of the stigma associated with the crime, even if you're one of the good guys. A decent indicator of the (poor) state of the art is that the best study of these sorts of crooks is probably still the lit review in Kim Rossmo's Ph.D on Geographic Profiling......which he released as a book 12 years ago.
    Last edited by Top_Cat; 16-12-2011 at 04:01 PM.

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post


    Sledger and Fred in a partnership in these cases......

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    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post


    Sledger and Fred in a partnership in these cases......
    Is this supposed to be funny?

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