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Thread: Australian flight safety

  1. #76
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Yeah, there's always teething problems with a new aircraft but this appears a bit more systemic. Someone's been raising doubts about lithium ion batteries used in the planes for years now.
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  4. #79
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    TBF something like this was bound to happen with the 787 because it is such a radically different plane. I'd be hesitant about flying on one for a couple of years, but once they iron out, easily the biggest advance in aviation in a generation IMO.


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  6. #81
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    Darwin ATC sent two Qantas jets on collision course | Plane Talking

    A near mid-air, this one in Darwin by RAAF ATC. They don't mention it in this article but I'm led to believe there was around 800' vertical separation between the planes. In other words, SFA.
    More on this, ATSB report released yesterday.

    Separation reduced to 3.9 NM (7.2 km) and 400 ft.
    Jesus.

    Ben Sandilands has his say, as always;

    How AirServices Australia endangered two 737s in 2011 | Plane Talking

  7. #82
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    Senate committee ATSB,CASA, Pel-Air wrap | Plane Talking

    Final word from the senate inquiry into the Pel-Air crash (Off the coast of Norfolk Island, Cleo Bachelor of the Year guy, etc.). Some sharp words about CASA and ATSB:

    Both organisations have been criticised for being more concerned with their image than public safety issues
    CASA withheld information that showed that it was aware of deficiencies in the Pel-Air operation which if acted upon may have prevented the Pel-Air crash
    And, as a result, CASA have now been referred to FedPol.

    I have no idea how either or both of Martin Dolan or John McCormick can continue in good conscience as head of ATSB and CASA respectively. The only reason I can think of this isn't getting more press right now is because no-one died. This is a somewhat unprecedented bollocking of the two peak aviation bodies in this country, basically accusing them of a deficient investigation, a biased final report pinning all blame on the pilot when it appears that wasn't the case as well as dodging or concealing information which would lead to any (more credible, tbh) alternative conclusion to the point where the Feds are going to review the case. CASA has been warned, in a senate inquiry FFS, not to go after the careers of anyone who gave evidence against them too.

    This just offends the sensibilities of everyone involved in flying, even for the lowliest of bug-smashers who are often subject to the most ridiculously bureaucratic safety brow-beating from CASA let alone the wider Australian public. If CASA and the ATSB were so inclined to obfuscate the investigation into a non-fatal lower-mid GA sea landing in this way, you've got to wonder about the level of arse covering we'd see if there was a really bad prang involving an airliner and a couple of hundred deaths.
    Last edited by Top_Cat; 24-05-2013 at 01:31 AM.

  8. #83
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    I think people are still taken in by this whole "QANTAS have never had a fatal passenger aircraft crash hence completely safe" and then applying that to Australian aviation as a whole. Neither is especially true.

  9. #84
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Yeah and I think I've said this before but that's also not exactly true. QANTAS has never had a fatal jet crash or jet hull loss. They have, however, had quite a few fatal non-jet crashes and have had a couple of jet prangs where there were no fatalities and they (reputedly) repaired at substantial cost to maintain their record where other airliners would have written them off (Bangkok 1999 comes to mind and there was one in Arnhem Land from memory).

    tbh, the longer-term issue amongst the conspiracy theorists is corruption rather than incompetence. Pel Air is a subsidiary of Rex and some have already speculated as to whether CASA were strong-armed by Rex sympathisers/shareholders within to keep Pel afloat after they missed out on the NSW aeromedical to the RFDS in the aftermath of the crash (NSW gov blamed costs but we all know it was the crash). The conspiratorially-minded have also wondered whether the tactic to blame the pilot entirely for the crash was to ensure Pel keeps their similar big-$ contract with Vic government they'd won only months before the same crash. If they are to be believed and Rex really does have that much influence in CASA's corridors, it's scary to think of how much big daddy Q would have (again, there are theories).
    Last edited by Top_Cat; 24-05-2013 at 01:29 AM.

  10. #85
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    Re: Bangkok I'm sure the pilot was a golfing fan, to be fair.

  11. #86
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    Top Cat and Spark hate Qantas. UnAustralian pricks.

    What's next? They are happy Ford closed down? They don't support Katter's call to label all foreign imported food as dangerous?





  12. #87
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    Meant to be on the Disastar 315 out of Townsville to Sydney this arvo. Burning off around the airport, lots of birds. Plane ate one on the way in

    Boarded us then discovered some engine damage so now sitting here waiting to see if thy can get an engineer up from a capital city to look at it. I'm tipping we're here for the night, given the Sydney curfew. They've said they reckon an engineer will be here by 630 and we'll be boarding by 645.

    I call bull****. If its bad enough to call the **** in, how will he clear it in 5 minutes ffs?

  13. #88
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Qantas 737 now included in Mildura fog incident inquiry | Plane Talking

    Anyone else been following this? What's giving it legs is not that airliners were diverted to Mildura but that they were diverted and declared fuel emergencies*. Yes it's been an unusually foggy season and the fog was not forecast when the flights left Brisbane but even then, this probably should not have happened. Legally for bug-smashing, you're supposed to have enough to get you to where you're going, enough for a planned diversion somewhere (fixed reserve) then enough 'just in case' (variable reserve) which translates to roughly 45 mins of flying. I'm sure there are additional amounts required in airlines for taxiing, holding, speed limitations, etc.

    Have no doubt Virgin and QANTAS were legal and they will likely use the unforecast fog defence but the perception is really why, in a 1st world country without any capability to land in serious fog anywhere**, airlines don't just carry a bit more in case they need to divert more than once or, say, if there's a bit more fog around than usual.

    Rumours abound on a pilot forum I frequent which have captn's and FO's as members from these airlines (including some who drove these flights) that they were looking around for flat spots to put the jet down 'just in case' after discovering that Adelaide, Parafield and Edinburgh were socked-in and Mildura was quite foggy itself. There are, in fact, questions whether the approach which put the planes down was strictly legal, whether the pilots had their hands forced by their impending critical fuel emergency. As widely reported, passengers were asked to brace so one wonders if they pilots were thinking it had to be this time or a hill-side somewhere, bugger the fog. Whatever the decision, had the plane been in possession of enough juice to go back to Brisbane, you reckon they'd have even considered a possibly illegal landing in marginal conditions? Hell no, back we go.

    There's been some ruction about Virgin and QANTAS' new fuel policies and the perception is that, in the absence of serious ILS in this country, they should have enough to get to where they're going, try a landing or two and then go back from whence they came and still have enough in reserve for a couple of attempts if weather has closed in where they came from.

    Now, it's given that pilots are possibly more prone to hyperbole than others but the ATSB are investigating and that they've just added a QANTAS flight to the inquiry is some cause for alarm. A low-cost carrier might be expected to be a bit tight with it's fuel but QANTAS doing the same comes as a bit of a shock to most with knowledge of the area. See how this one pans out but I'll give the ATSB credit for being hot on it. After the kicking they got a couple of weeks ago, good to see.

    *read: "I'm not about to crash due to running out of fuel but please, I must land or in an uncomfortably short period of time I will begin to get quite worried. In any case, I must land here."
    ** Tulla has a commissioned a Cat IIIa system but it's not operational yet and not enough to do a fully automatic landing in really thick fog anyway
    Last edited by Top_Cat; 02-07-2013 at 07:24 PM.

  14. #89
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  15. #90
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    Two Qantas jets involved in serious mid-air 'near miss' | Plane Talking

    Happened outside Adelaide yesterday. Uncomfortable.

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