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Thread: The Official Indian Politics Thread

  1. #946
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Kejriwal discloses sting operation showing BJP leader trying to buy AAP leader for Rs. 4cr

    AAP with its sting operation is set to expose BJP's Delhi Government plans

    The whole system is so rotten in this country especially with these Established parties. BJP in it's present arrogance continuing misdeeds and delaying elections by hook or crook using that spineless LG. (Amit Shah plan ?)

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    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    International Captain ankitj's Avatar
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    In other news, everyone, including Congress and Pakistani prime minister, have admired the work done by Central government in flood rescue efforts in J&K.

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    International Regular OverratedSanity's Avatar
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    Have enjoyed most of the stuff Modi has done so far, especially the foreign policy. It's the things he haven't done that are annoying. He has to silence idiots like that Yogi Adityanath. The BJP can't on one hand maintain cold silence when their MPs spout hate against Muslims and then go cry that the media and the opposition is communalising every issue.


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    International Captain ankitj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverratedSanity View Post
    Have enjoyed most of the stuff Modi has done so far, especially the foreign policy. It's the things he haven't done that are annoying. He has to silence idiots like that Yogi Adityanath. The BJP can't on one hand maintain cold silence when their MPs spout hate against Muslims and then go cry that the media and the opposition is communalising every issue.
    Media and opposition are doing that. Parties like SP can go to any extent for electoral advantage.

    But no denying that Yogi Adityanath needs to be stopped.

  6. #951
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ankitj View Post
    In other news, everyone, including Congress and Pakistani prime minister, have admired the work done by Central government in flood rescue efforts in J&K.
    Yeah, both the central govt. and State govt. are doing good efforts there. Though to be honest in most of such tragedy situations\ both central and state govt. do as much as they can in rescue work almost always whoever is in power. Rehabilitation efforts now are real key just like Preparedness is beforehand.

    Kashmir Floods: 6 Lakh Stranded, Nearly 50,000 Rescued

    Real big tragedy.

    Army effort has been great and humongous too, but magnitude is just overwhelming.
    Last edited by Cevno; 10-09-2014 at 01:44 AM.

  7. #952
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverratedSanity View Post
    Have enjoyed most of the stuff Modi has done so far, especially the foreign policy. It's the things he haven't done that are annoying. He has to silence idiots like that Yogi Adityanath. The BJP can't on one hand maintain cold silence when their MPs spout hate against Muslims and then go cry that the media and the opposition is communalising every issue.
    What has this govt. done different in Foreign Policy terms except Backtracking on WTO negotiations which is still in limbo ? The photo op foreign tours have been good signals, but amounted to nothing substantial so far.

    They market them better with Media under control, compared to MMS and Previous govt. who toured so many places without anyone caring or noticing. I'll give them that.

    This govt. has basically been UPA 3 so far. Even the budget i expected so much more but was underwhelming. No movement on any kind of major reforms, and same kind of arrogance (not even giving opposition a LOP or reforming parliament rules.) and penchant for corruption/greed/cronyism.

  8. #953
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ankitj View Post
    Media and opposition are doing that. Parties like SP can go to any extent for electoral advantage.

    But no denying that Yogi Adityanath needs to be stopped.
    So can BJP in many parts of the country. That's been their modus operandi to grow let's be honest. Suits both in UP usually to polarize situations and split religious bases where people then vote out of survival tendencies and anger almost. Just Different sides of the same coin in this aspect though overall SP is even worse.

    I have toured Western UP and before the elections pretty dirty games were played for months. Even See Muzzafarnagar and how SP allowed situation to polarize before and how it backfired on them only but worked for BJP under Amit shah plan. Making Adityanath main campaigner is part of the same plan now as well and dangerous in already polarized environment in parts.
    Last edited by Cevno; 10-09-2014 at 01:30 AM.

  9. #954
    International Regular OverratedSanity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    What has this govt. done different in Foreign Policy terms except Backtracking on WTO negotiations which is still in limbo ? The photo op foreign tours have been good signals, but amounted to nothing substantial so far.

    They market them better with Media under control, compared to MMS and Previous govt. who toured so many places without anyone caring or noticing. I'll give them that.

    This govt. has basically been UPA 3 so far. Even the budget i expected so much more but was underwhelming. No movement on any kind of major reforms, and same kind of arrogance (not even giving opposition a LOP or reforming parliament rules.) and penchant for corruption/greed/cronyism.
    This is why I think your posting in this thread is rubbish. You always take a one-eyed view on thingswithout taking anything close to a balanced approach. Have you considered the fact that the job of a PM in diplomatic relations and foreign policy is all about sending signals? Not just to their own countrymen but to other countries. The jibe at China's expansionism was divisive but I thought it was perfectly handles. It clearly pissed off China enough that they knew we didn't approve, it pleased Japan the right amount and at the same time, it wasn't an open, irresponsible comment which would cause China to become totally livid. It was handled so deflty that I'm surprised more people haven't praised it.
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  10. #955
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverratedSanity View Post
    This is why I think your posting in this thread is rubbish. You always take a one-eyed view on thingswithout taking anything close to a balanced approach. Have you considered the fact that the job of a PM in diplomatic relations and foreign policy is all about sending signals? Not just to their own countrymen but to other countries. The jibe at China's expansionism was divisive but I thought it was perfectly handles. It clearly pissed off China enough that they knew we didn't approve, it pleased Japan the right amount and at the same time, it wasn't an open, irresponsible comment which would cause China to become totally livid. It was handled so deflty that I'm surprised more people haven't praised it.
    Modi's expansionist comment not aimed at China, says Sushma Swaraj - Firstpost

    This is very basic foreign policy stuff that happens all the time. The indirect jibe at Expansionist tendencies was good but that's been India's position for a while now and been in all kind of Foreign ministers speeches and bilateral meetings before when it comes to Chinese - Japanese water disputes. Hardly any path breaking stuff though it got picked up and more coverage this time as Modi's tours are covered lot more high profile and done in a high profile way right now and as a result of which Foreign ministry had to issue that denial above which basically reduces it's impact anyway before meeting Chinese president. (Not that India is USA and it's views majorly matter to China in terms of Chinese - Japan relations.)

    Anyway, i am not saying this govt. has done anything wrong in foreign policy terms but i don't get what different exactly have they done to previous govt. or govts. that it makes it anything out of the ordinary except backtracking WTO negotiations which is a debatable issue and i'll applaud if they manage to get a substantially better deal. Seen nothing special so far in foreign policy terms or out of the box, like FTA's/other deals, promoting new multilateral relations or new wholesale policy shifts like the look east policy of Narsimha Rao. It's just been continuation of the same old policies just maybe marketed better. Even the vote against Israel was the same and routine for years now, just the media made a lot of hulabaloo about it weirdly when that's been India's position since 1992 IIRC.

    Sorry, if i am not overjoyed by just grandstanding and am judging this government by the same parameters i set for the previous governments instead of being blinded by anything new, different and shiny. I'd give maybe 6 on 10 on Foreign Policy if i had to rate. Good, nothing wrong and better than other areas but nothing extraordinary or out of the box either.


    Edit - And you kind of proved my point by making a indirect comment which was denied later in a written down routine speech during a foreign visit as some big achievement. That's clutching at straws stuff or you've been fooled by marketing or something. It won't be a big issue even if US president had made that comment before denial let alone Indian one with much lesser influence. I'll look at aggressive movement on major and heavy stuff or policy shift wholesale in several areas before being overjoyed by Foreign policy particularly.
    Last edited by Cevno; 10-09-2014 at 02:42 AM.

  11. #956
    International Captain ankitj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    So can BJP in many parts of the country
    That's a very AAP way of looking at it. I don't think that is true at all. The way Congress and associated parties have screwed national interest is something I don't think BJP would have in many areas. Take example of giving ever more reservations every election season or letting illegal Bangladeshi immigrants displace local inhabitants. There are many such examples. BJP doesn't come without its quirks but at least it has a consistent viewpoint i.e. pro-business and nationalism. Congress, SP etc have no ideology at all.
    Last edited by ankitj; 11-09-2014 at 09:15 AM.

  12. #957
    International Debutant harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    What has this govt. done different in Foreign Policy terms except Backtracking on WTO negotiations which is still in limbo ? The photo op foreign tours have been good signals, but amounted to nothing substantial so far.

    They market them better with Media under control, compared to MMS and Previous govt. who toured so many places without anyone caring or noticing. I'll give them that.

    This govt. has basically been UPA 3 so far. Even the budget i expected so much more but was underwhelming. No movement on any kind of major reforms, and same kind of arrogance (not even giving opposition a LOP or reforming parliament rules.) and penchant for corruption/greed/cronyism.
    Though I have never been a believer in expecting anything from politicians, I do think Modi as PM has been better than UPA and UPA II by a fair margin.

    First off, it was very important to get India off its death slumber when it came to relationships with countries like China, Russia, Brazil, Nepal. A PM having personality and charisma (something that Modi can be accused of) is always a plus point. Most analysts around the world confirm that the Head of State's job in large democratic countries is mostly about foreign policy. Unlike say Singapore or China.

    From a lot of sources, it is becoming increasingly clear that military hostilities between China and India will go down dramatically in the next year and hopefully further ahead.

    Modi being Japanese PM Abe's close friend is a huge deal IMO. They can come together on a whole range of issues. Japan is the technology giant of Asia. We get a significant portion of their technology and their manufacturing hubs, and we can be on our way.

    I was told, with regards to the budget, that Chidambaram had already smoked away 45% of the budget deficit earmarked for the year in the first quarter itself. Now this may be false information, I don't know. If true, it, of course, cripples the administration for the year.

    I don't see why they are required to "give" LOP to someone. The constitution has a mandate allowing the people of the country to not choose an LOP by giving no other party 10% of the seats.

    As far as greed/corruption goes, I have never expected anything from anyone in that regard. It is a systemic problem. If things get done with corruption, I am fine with that.

    FTR, this is my first foray into this thread, and if I am repeating something that has already been hashed, please accept my apologies
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  13. #958
    International Debutant harsh.ag's Avatar
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    I agree BJP has some elements which can be considered polarizing, but there are aspects to that. They have a "nationalism" thing that people who help anti-national forces, while following any form of philosophy or ethics-driven-principle, it's not cool. Do I agree with that? In almost every case, hell no.

    Also,

    a) It is always biased. Majority bashing is not considered polarizing. Sonia's statements of "First right to resources goes to Muslims" is not considered polarizing. Why?

    b) It became insanely difficult to associate Jehadi terrorism with Islam during UPA I and UPA II. That was ridiculous. These things should be discussed as openly as possible.

    Not defending Yogi Baba. The man acts at another level of polarizing.

  14. #959
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ankitj View Post
    That's a very AAP way of looking at it. I don't think that is true at all. The way Congress and associated parties have screwed national interest is something I don't think BJP would have in many areas. Take example of giving ever more reservations every election season or letting illegal Bangladeshi immigrants displace local inhabitants. There are many such examples. BJP doesn't come without its quirks but at least it has a consistent viewpoint i.e. pro-business and nationalism. Congress, SP etc have no ideology at all.
    That's definitely true and nothing to do with AAP at all. Been my view for long and based on personal experiences as well. See my posts in this thread even in the past or the one you responded too.

    They don't have any representation of minorities in their elected representatives and negelgible in office bearers. They have all types of looneys who make idiotic hindu centric statements to incite and polarize more than most other parties as well. They give tickets to riot accused and make hidden provocative statements whether it be Kandhamal, Gujarat or Muzzafarnagar and their manifesto has all kind of divisive promises as much if not more than Congress or SP just the other way.

    Their ground workers in many parts are inciting as well as they are affiliated to Sangh Parivar and Hindu religious based pretty much as well whose stated objective is to create Hindu Rashtra. See this type of statements by Mohan Bhagwat no less -

    Teach girls meaning of 'Love Jihad': RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat - Economic Times

    And neither he or Adityanath or even Modi when he suited him making such type of inciting comments were small fish. Their rise in most states of country is related to divisive and inciting situations as well with Ram Mandir being prime. From when the Hindu middle class seems to have strange affinity with this kind of thinking.


    As for comparison with Congress BJP's economic ideology is barely different that much though they have been better at implementation definitely. On Bangladesh Migrant issue i completely agree with you and it was something Congress and previous govt. overlooked and so did the Vajpayee govt. to a degree actually. Will see what this govt. actually does and plans do beyond rhetoric.

    Nationalism again i agree with you, but what defines nationalism for me is not the Hindu Nationalism BJP propogates though i am closer to them than the Congress on most issues in this regard.

  15. #960
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.ag View Post
    I agree BJP has some elements which can be considered polarizing, but there are aspects to that. They have a "nationalism" thing that people who help anti-national forces, while following any form of philosophy or ethics-driven-principle, it's not cool. Do I agree with that? In almost every case, hell no.

    Also,

    a) It is always biased. Majority bashing is not considered polarizing. Sonia's statements of "First right to resources goes to Muslims" is not considered polarizing. Why?

    b) It became insanely difficult to associate Jehadi terrorism with Islam during UPA I and UPA II. That was ridiculous. These things should be discussed as openly as possible.

    Not defending Yogi Baba. The man acts at another level of polarizing.
    See comments by Mohan Bhagwat, the big boss of RSS since elections as well along with the riots or communal flare ups that have increased too.

    Anyway, i completely agree with you on the 2 points you listed and i actually previously posted about the Congress in this regard in this thread as well IIRC especially the 2nd one. Though having said that inciting a polarized atmosphere even more for electoral benefits by making stupid unfounded claims and what not is different kinds of douchebaggery tho. Especially tough for Minorities in such situations which leads to alienation and people both sides then polarize based on religion rather than merits of adminstration etc....

    It is a tough balancing act but not a fan of overtly pandering to minorities (though the economic weaker section deserves support like with SC's and ST's which BJP strangely opposed blankly.) and not a fan of Hindu nationalism or pandering to Majorities either.

    For example, something like Communal violence bill has had the debate too polarized on either side and stupid when for me i look at the merits and with safeguards see it as a good idea. Congress proposed to extreme a bill and BJP opposed it point blank claiming it was against Hindu's etc.. which some lapped up which is what happens when you effectively create religion based fear mongering.

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