The Official Indian Politics Thread

[Cevno]

Also, read the statements of one of the victim's above in the interview where he mentions the general Apathy and the Chalta hai attitude in society where nobody wants to get involved to such a degree in legal/police hassle that they didn't help these 2 when they were thrown out of the bus.

Then the Police was fighting on whose territory this case comes in. And this applies for most crimes, not only sexual violence.

Also, there are archaic laws in every areas which make it harder to convict and act as a lesser deterrent.

[silentstriker]

Is that really one of the "primary" problems when the vast majority of rapes aren't even reported? And of those that are, a huge percentage never get to trial or get convictions because of the patriarchal culture?

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by silentstriker

Is that really one of the "primary" problems when the vast majority of rapes aren't even reported? And of those that are, a huge percentage never get to trial or get convictions because of the patriarchal culture?

They don't get reported as much due to patriarchal culture Yeah. But they also don't get reported due to fear/incompetence of police, and the case lasting for 20 years.

And for convictions more that Patriarchal culture, the problem is lack of Police sensitivity and capability to deal with such situations. Need more forensic labs, and better equipment, plus more police in general.

Also, the court case lasting 20 years is as much of a hassle for the victim as it is for the accused. It also allows the Accused to put pressure on the victim and then get away. And it's same for almost every crime.


Plus deterrence is not there when there are not enough convictions. There were some cases of fathers raping their daughters in Kerala. Convict one Bastard quickly and lock him up and it sets a deterrent for others.


And neither is prevention when Police is even more slack with small time harrasment/crime.

This whole incident could have been prevented had small things like not allowing fake permit buses , no tinted glasses, Drunk driving, hoarding by autos been checked.

[shankar]

^ Absolutely. Unfortunately the unscientific pet theories that people have about the mindset of rapists prevents us from demanding the obvious reforms that the police and judicial systems have needed for decades. The wonderfully coordinated movement that has arisen in response to this rape will unfortunately be wasted because people think demands for death penalty and castration for rapists are what's needed.

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by Cevno

Only Witness of Delhi Gangrape incident speaks to Zee News Exclusive - YouTube

Only Witness of Delhi Gangrape incident speaks to Zee News Exclusive Part2 - YouTube

Interview of the guy who was accompanying the girl.

Police to register case against Zee News for airing interview of Delhi rape victim's friend - The Times of India

Delhi Police, just when we thought you could not stoop lower, you went ahead and did just that by filing an FIR against Zee News. Well done!

Look how quickly they acted here trying to cover up their incompetence and asses. Just Wow!

[Cevno]

All atwitter

The issue is sexual repression. You can’t ban it away. Or solve it on Twitter

We have become a nation of angry people. In the last one year, we have witnessed how the common man, overcome with rage, has taken to the streets, to protest, to react and to say “no”. Rage is good when it gets you to go out and deal with what you have a problem with. But I do think that, somewhere, our collective rage is going out of control. We have stopped thinking rationally.

In the guise of rage and outrage — Twitter’s favourite currency — we are in danger of becoming a nation of lynch mobs. We are on the lookout for a soft target and once we spot it, we take out all our pent up rage on him/her. This is what I feel has happened with the recent case of Punjabi bhangra rapper Yo Yo Honey Singh.

Let’s be real — nobody was aware of his songs until this controversy about the lyrics flared up. These songs have been on the net for years and they were dying a quiet death. Even I wasn’t aware of them, or of Honey Singh.

I’m defending him because I have a problem with this irrational behaviour that we as a nation seem to be now showing. We are getting caught up in a kind of elitism — intellectual, moral and even at the level of individual conscience — where some people, mostly on Twitter, deem themselves intellectually or morally superior to decide what is good or bad for a majority of us.

Certainly, you can have a problem with what Honey Singh is singing (just for the record, the song “Balatkari” was written not by him but by the Pakistani band Zeest and I absolutely agree that those are horrendous lyrics). But that doesn’t mean you ban him. He has a right to exist and sing about what he wants to. We have the choice not to listen to the song or go to his concert. Singers like Honey Singh exist because there is a market for them — there are consumers who consume his content. He is the symptom of the problem, not its root.

The issue we need to address is that of mindset. The issue is repression. Where does the song “C***t” come from? It comes from repression. It’s the lament of a boy who has been rejected by a girl and is expressing his feelings musically. It might be a crass song but crass also has the right to exist. If we don’t want the lyricist to write songs like these, we need to enter into a dialogue with him. We need to shame him. But we can’t ban him by saying that his lyrics are causing rapes. If you do that, then how are you different from the khap panchayats who insist that girls who wear skirts invite rape?

As a country, repression is one of our biggest problems. You can’t tackle repression with suppression. The fact is that boys and girls in our country don’t know how to interact with each other. When I was 16-17 years-old, I went to college in Varanasi and I remember I was so stunned to see girls in skirts that I couldn’t stop staring at a girl’s legs. A girl came up to me and completely shamed me by asking why I was behaving in that manner. The fact was that I had never seen girls in skirts. I came from a small town where girls were always covered up. Those three years that I spent in college, interacting with girls, changed my mindset.

I made Gangs of Wasseypur and people were laughing at all the wrong places. Mostly at the gaalis. Where did that laughter come from? While watching a horror film, people laugh out of fear but in this case they were laughing out of repression. Saying the unspeakable got them laughing. That’s what happens with songs like “Balatkari”.

There is so much comment on the objectification of women in item songs. These songs exist because people flock to the theatres to watch them. Filmmaking is a business that needs consumers to survive. If people go to the theatres and endorse these films and these songs, Friday after Friday, then what are we supposed to do? A film like I Am comes and disappears, a film like Chittagong is released and nobody goes to see it. You talk of filmmakers and pop culture taking a firm stand on social responsibility. Well, then I think it’s the individual’s prerogative whether or not he or she takes the responsibility. Each and every one of us should take this responsibility. But we can’t force it on anyone.

Howsoever offensive something is, you are not going to solve it by banning it. You can boycott it, but you can’t stop it from existing. If there is a poisonous creeper on a tree, we need to nurture it differently. We can’t cut down the tree and expect the problem will be solved.

I’ve gone through this grind for 20 years. I made Paanch and people said the same things about me that they are saying about Honey Singh. I’ve also been banned but I still make the films I want to. I have suffered it.

People need to understand that there is diversity, intellectual as well as moral. This diversity makes up society and every society has its share of the tragic and the unfair. If you want to change something, become that change yourself. Begin at home. Stop buying the content that offends you. But you can’t stop others from making that content. We live in a world where all kinds of pornographic material is freely available on the internet. The internet even teaches you how to make a bomb! How much will you ban?

Agreed, we have archaic rape laws and the government has been ineffectual at handling the issue of women’s safety, but this is a social problem. A single individual is not responsible for it. You can’t put a finger on a single person or a single film and say this is what is causing rapes in the country. We need to take responsibility for ourselves and bring about change.

And let’s not fool ourselves — Twitter won’t bring the change.

The writer is a filmmaker

express@expressindia.com

All atwitter - Indian Express

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by shankar

^ Absolutely. Unfortunately the unscientific pet theories that people have about the mindset of rapists prevents us from demanding the obvious reforms that the police and judicial systems have needed for decades. The wonderfully coordinated movement that has arisen in response to this rape will unfortunately be wasted because people think demands for death penalty and castration for rapists are what's needed.

Yep, exactly. Even Social mindsets sometimes requires systematic pressure to change along with enough of the mass challenging it. And systematic pressure is only generated by a working system, not a broken one.

Law and order aspect along with other factors shouldn't ever be ignored and hopefully it isn't. For instance, why are there so many filthy comments on youtube and not here or any other well moderated forum?Does that mean that everybody on those forums is all roses and does not cuss or harbor bad thoughts?

[Daemon]

Can someone give cliffs on the interview? My hindi isn't the best and the audio quality is poor.

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by Cevno

People stared at us and left, but didn
Don't speak Hindi.

Just read that for part of it.

Awful. So Depressing.

......

[Cevno]

Delhi Police registering a case against Zee News in a untenable section and then labelling their main witness as a liar is such a disgrace.

These people have no shame.

[8ankitj]

One thing that's underrated in the kind of response sexual assault receives from police is just lethargy. It's not they all think that rape is acceptable but the terrible work culture in government jobs means that they don't want to get up from their lazy arises unless they are put under pressure. You will find it hard to get responses from police on just about any issue.

So what that means is that their has to incentive and accountability structures for police and pretty much any public services.

[Cevno]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...flOLjo.twitter

Father reveals name to the Sunday Mirror/Sunday People in the UK.

Gives more details.

[8ankitj]

The Colonial Hangover of India’s Rape Law - India Real Time - WSJ

Very pertinent. Looks like the commission set up is not quite focusing on the fundamentals of how rape is defined and what constitutes evidence which is very important reason for why convictions are abysmally low.

[smalishah84]

Originally Posted by Cevno

Also, read the statements of one of the victim's above in the interview where he mentions the general Apathy and the Chalta hai attitude in society where nobody wants to get involved to such a degree in legal/police hassle that they didn't help these 2 when they were thrown out of the bus.
.

This is such a big problem in pakistan. Getting involved in thana/kutchery is a nightmare for most people. Probably the single biggest reason why crimes don't get reported because first of all with the corruption in the police dept it would be very difficult to get them to properly investigate a case. Secondly even if the police do then court cases just linger on and on and on and on for years and years. And especially if the other party is influential then you can kiss justice good bye. Paying off judges to get rulings in your own favor is not very uncommon either. So where is the incentive to get involved the legal system involved?

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by 8ankitj

The Colonial Hangover of India’s Rape Law - India Real Time - WSJ

Very pertinent. Looks like the commission set up is not quite focusing on the fundamentals of how rape is defined and what constitutes evidence which is very important reason for why convictions are abysmally low.

2 Laws pertaining to Violence/Sexual Violence against woman are pending in parliament, so i'm pretty sure that commission should look into those matters as well.

Actually it's been set up to look at these laws only. Not other things which government has conveniently forgotten like reforming Police, Judiciary etc..