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Thread: The Official Pakistan Politics thread

  1. #1321
    Cricketer Of The Year Xuhaib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    Just saw the full program and some strange answers there, especially when quizzed about the taliban in respect to the malala incident and the Blasphemy laws.

    But sounds like Arvind Kejriwal in India when speaking about corruption and some other subjects,though is far more clever at dodging questions and giving generic replies unlike Kejriwal who is still more of a activist than a politician.

    Still all in all Pakistan's best bet to get 1 chance at least considering what are the other choices.
    yeah pretty much this was one of his weaker shows have seen him do much better on the same question at some other shows maybe just loss of form

  2. #1322
    International Debutant Black_Warrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion View Post



    Again with blaming America for the atrocities of the Taliban. The US invasion does not cause the Taliban to shoot 14 year old girls. The US does not cause the Taliban to kill minorities. The US does not cause the Taliban to subjugate women. Why is that so hard to understand? Ignore reality all you want, but I assure you that the Taliban will not go away once the US does. They are here to stay and they will want to take over both Afghanistan and Pakistan and transform them into their vision. Either we fight them and defeat them, or we allow them to slowly take over.

    You completely missed my point it seems... Have you ever tried to consider what would make a person shoot a 14 year old girl?
    I thought bringing up the concept of Harvey Dent/Two Face would have made the point but you completely missed it. Why was someone like Harvey Dent, a defender of justice about to kill Gordon's children?

    Unlike most people, I am not satisfied with black and white theories of 'oh they are evil monsters who hate our freedom'

    War has a far more devastating and long lasting effect than just the number of people killed..it chews out your soul and spits it back at you.. But I don't think you and most people understand this.. you are just interested in 'oh look at these inhuman monsters, they shot a 14 year old girl' no one is interested in asking the question why.

    As someone extremely interested in human behaviour, I have studied different wars and revolutions throughout history in order to find the answer to that question.Most people are not willing to go that far and are only satisfied in simple and lazy answers like "oh they are just evil and hate us"

  3. #1323
    International Debutant Black_Warrior's Avatar
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    A brilliant piece that highlights much more eloquently the points I have been trying to make.


    The PSY scandal: singing about killing people v. constantly doing it | Glenn Greenwald | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk


    "If you want your country to rule the world as an aggressive and militaristic empire, then accept the inevitable consequence of that: that there will be huge numbers of people in the world who resent and even hate your country for that behavior. Don't cheer while your country constantly kills, invades, occupies, and dominates the internal affairs of countless other nations - and then expect to be liked. Immorality aside, producing this reaction is one reason not to do such things. This kind of imperial behavior, inevitably and in every era, generates extreme levels of animosity and, ultimately, returned violence."

  4. #1324
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    very well written article


  5. #1325
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    and some members on this forum think that these people deserve to be in power

    Over 60 per cent of Pakistani lawmakers evade taxes: report | DAWN.COM

  6. #1326
    Global Moderator Fusion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    and some members on this forum think that these people deserve to be in power

    Over 60 per cent of Pakistani lawmakers evade taxes: report | DAWN.COM
    Excellent link Smali. I gather you think that those lawmakers that don't pay taxes should not be in power right? I would also think any party that retains such people does not deserve power either, correct? Because prominent members of Imran's PTI party (Awais Leghari, Javed Hashmi, and Afzal Sindhu) did not pay any taxes either.

    I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that the party of accountability is once again hypocritical on an issue.

    How can a party who's main platform is to end corruption tolerate such people within its own ranks? I would think Imran would oust all three of them today if he's really a man of his word. I can't wait to hear the excuses and justification of PTI fan boys on this issue!

  7. #1327
    Global Moderator Teja.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion View Post
    Excellent link Smali. I gather you think that those lawmakers that don't pay taxes should not be in power right? I would also think any party that retains such people does not deserve power either, correct? Because prominent members of Imran's PTI party (Awais Leghari, Javed Hashmi, and Afzal Sindhu) did not pay any taxes either.

    I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that the party of accountability is once again hypocritical on an issue.

    How can a party who's main platform is to end corruption tolerate such people within its own ranks? I would think Imran would oust all three of them today if he's really a man of his word. I can't wait to hear the excuses and justification of PTI fan boys on this issue!
    Would genuinely love to see the response to this point.
    Isnít it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too? Ė Douglas Adams



    Quote Originally Posted by GIMH View Post
    The reason people don't cheer for India is nothing to do with them being number one

    It's because Teja is a ****, FTR

  8. #1328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion View Post
    Excellent link Smali. I gather you think that those lawmakers that don't pay taxes should not be in power right? I would also think any party that retains such people does not deserve power either, correct? Because prominent members of Imran's PTI party (Awais Leghari, Javed Hashmi, and Afzal Sindhu) did not pay any taxes either.

    I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that the party of accountability is once again hypocritical on an issue.

    How can a party who's main platform is to end corruption tolerate such people within its own ranks? I would think Imran would oust all three of them today if he's really a man of his word. I can't wait to hear the excuses and justification of PTI fan boys on this issue!
    Up yours baby

    PTI leaders declare assets – The Express Tribune

    http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-New...ee-year-assets
    Last edited by smalishah84; 12-12-2012 at 10:12 AM.

  9. #1329
    Global Moderator Fusion's Avatar
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    Erm, they declared their income taxes on salaries. That's different from the income they earned from other sources (such as owning land, which a majority of the lawmakers have). Even Zaradri (and all other lawmakers) can claim he paid his salary tax. The report that so outraged you is NOT focused on salary income tax. Case in point from the article you posted:

    Makhdoom Javed Hashmi paid Rs60,749 that was probably deducted on his salary income as MNA. No other income has been shown and thus not taxed. He paid Rs29,115 and Rs39,325 in 2009 and 2010 respectively

    The actual report lists who filed and paid taxes. Notice that the 3 PTI members I listed did not pay taxes (income tax excluded).

    The report does not take into account the tax paid by politicians on their parliamentary salaries, which is automatically deducted by the government. In fact that is a major source of criticism against the report, because parliamentarians automatically pay tax on their salaries. But that's not the point is it? The point is that the vast majority (especially wealthy individuals like Hashmi) are not living off their meager government salaries alone. They are earning income through land and other assets.

    So I ask you Smali: Do you really think all Hashmi/Leghari/Sindhu earned were from their government salaries? I think the answer is obvious. So, what’s Imran going to do about it? What are YOU going to demand as a PTI supporter Imran do about this?
    Last edited by Fusion; 12-12-2012 at 10:39 AM.

  10. #1330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion View Post
    Erm, they declared their income taxes on salaries. That's different from the income they earned from other sources (such as owning land, which a majority of the lawmakers have). Even Zaradri (and all other lawmakers) can claim he paid his salary tax. The report that so outraged you is NOT focused on salary income tax. Case in point from the article you posted:

    Makhdoom Javed Hashmi paid Rs60,749 that was probably deducted on his salary income as MNA. No other income has been shown and thus not taxed. He paid Rs29,115 and Rs39,325 in 2009 and 2010 respectively

    The actual report lists who filed and paid taxes. Notice that the 3 PTI members I listed did not pay taxes (income tax excluded).

    The report does not take into account the tax paid by politicians on their parliamentary salaries, which is automatically deducted by the government. In fact that is a major source of criticism against the report, because parliamentarians automatically pay tax on their salaries. But that's not the point is it? The point is that the vast majority (especially wealthy individuals like Hashmi) are not living off their meager government salaries alone. They are earning income through land and other assets.

    So I ask you Smali: Do you really think all Hashmi/Leghari/Sindhu earned were from their government salaries? I think the answer is obvious. So, whatís Imran going to do about it? What are YOU going to demand as a PTI supporter Imran do about this?
    I am positive that they must be earning incomes through their lands. You might also be aware that agri income is not taxed in Pakistan. The question is will Imran tax the rich as he says he will? I am positive that he will. Will he be successful in increasing the tax net in Pakistan. Definitely more so than the current lot. If Imran makes tax collection a cornerstone of his policies I do believe him because he has a certain credibility. I can at least think of taking him seriously.

    When the other clowns talk about taking Pakistan on the path to development I just have to ask the question. What the **** were you doing from 1988-99 and from 2008-2012?

  11. #1331
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    It just reminded me of a cricket analogy.

    The argument to support non-PTI parties is pretty much like the BCCI stance on DRS. Since PTI does not seem to have a 100% record hence we will go with the current lot (despite the current lot being a lot worse than PTI

  12. #1332
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    It just reminded me of a cricket analogy.

    The argument to support non-PTI parties is pretty much like the BCCI stance on DRS. Since PTI does not seem to have a 100% record hence we will go with the current lot (despite the current lot being a lot worse than PTI
    ~ Cribbage ~

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  13. #1333
    Global Moderator Fusion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    It just reminded me of a cricket analogy.

    The argument to support non-PTI parties is pretty much like the BCCI stance on DRS. Since PTI does not seem to have a 100% record hence we will go with the current lot (despite the current lot being a lot worse than PTI
    That analogy does not apply. In regards to DRS vs. non-DRS, we can actually compare two methods and say “one is 100% while the other is 90%”. Imran has given us no such track record since he’s never been in power. Right now, everything Imran says is just talk. He says he’ll end corruption within 90 days of taking power. I’m doubting not only his ability to end corruption, but his will as well. If he has corrupt individuals in leadership position of his party, why should I believe anything he says about ending corruption?
    Last edited by Fusion; 12-12-2012 at 02:29 PM.

  14. #1334
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    Don't get the point of this report if they haven't found out all the other income sources, imo and not listed the taxes paid of their salaries.

    First tell the amount of tax each one was supposed to pay under current law and has evaded, and then it'll be some sort of investigation.

    Obv, not everyone was living of their salaries alone but that doesn't mean that all of them weren't either and if they weren't what they were living off won't be necessarily taxable. Hell, most of the politicians under declare their assets anyway in these parts and tbf they have to due to the market value being determined by Black Money.

  15. #1335
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    So let me ask you Fusion,

    who are you supporting for the next election?



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