The Official Pakistan Politics thread

[Fusion]

Originally Posted by Agent Nationaux

Fusion you have gotten confused about the Taliban just like everyone else. Imran supports Afghan Taliban who are fighting for their country. Before US invasion of Afghanistan these people never took interests in Pakistan and have no intention to. They only want their country. Imran is against the TTP however, who are terrorists because they are blowing up Masjids, markets, etc.

I’m not confused about the Taliban at all. I know who they are: evil, heartless barbarians who barely qualify to be labeled as human beings. There is no differentiating between the Afghan and Pakistani Taliban. They both have the same extreme ideology and purpose. So according to you, Saint Imran supports the Afghan Taliban. The same Afghan Taliban that applied the most twisted version of Islam on its people? The same Afghan Taliban that gave shelter to OBL and the rest of Al Qaeda leadership? Oh ok then, that makes me want to support Imran for sure! By the way, the Afghan Taliban are also blowing up Masjids, Markets, innocent children, just like the TTP. Is Imran seriously going to ignore their atrocities and label them as good old freedom fighters fighting the infidels?

Originally Posted by Agent Nationaux

Yes Imran has made mistakes and he probably is a hypocrite, but who isn't, we are all hypocrites. the important thing is how he behaves from now on. In the last few years his behaviour has been professional.

Also please let me know who you want to be the prime minister of Pakistan (probably someone who grovels to the US).

Yes we are all hypocrites. However, we’re not all running for Prime Minister on a platform of personal responsibility, people’s power, and restoration of true democracy. Imran is and hence deserves to be called on his hypocrisies.

As for who I want for Prime Minister – how about someone that doesn’t grovel at the feet of the Taliban?

Originally Posted by Agent Nationaux

How has Imran aligned himself with murderers. Altaf by the way is one of the biggest murderers in Pakistan and should be hanged for his crimes, but the UK government is protecting the bastard.

Then why has Imran softened his stance on Altaf and the MQM? Why is he willing to work with them in the future? This is still the same Altaf that according to Imran had many of the PTI workers killed during the May 12th Karachi riots. Could it be a case of political expediency?

I also provided other examples of extremists that Imran associates himself with.

Originally Posted by Agent Nationaux

Regarding Musharaf, yes he supported him earlier, but that was in his early days, when people thought that he would make a difference. Nawaz deserved to be removed for being the corrupt arsehole that he is. But when Musharaf offered offered Imran the prime minister post, Imran refused.

Agent, no matter how incompetent or corrupt Nawaz was (and I consider him the worst PM in the history of Pakistan), he was still democratically elected. How can a person championing democracy support a military takeover? What right will he have to oppose/deter future military coups? This was another case of political expediancy for Imran.

Originally Posted by Agent Nationaux

That was a sarcastic joke Imran made regarding the racist comments you mentioned. And not admitting to being father of the girl, well yes that was a mistake which he should not have done, but he has accepted her now.

Oh so that's how it works? If you're being sarcastic, you can make all the racist jokes in the world. That's good to know.

And the main point about his illegimate daughter is about personal responsibility. This man who advocates accountablity from others was not willing to be accountable for his own actions. By the way, he still hasn’t acknowledged her officially as his daughter. He just quitely accepted her in his life. Imran’s actions in this whole case have been simply shameful.

[Xuhaib]

As for your point about him supporting Musharraf's dictatorship imo we should cut Imran some slack for his political follies. he's not a natural politician he was not born in a political house neither was he a lawyer like Jinnah or freedom fighter like Mandela these are the people who naturally progress in to politics here we had a sports icon who after retirement decided to start a new profession completely from scratch naturally he will make mistakes.

The important thing for me is his intentions he is not there for glory he could have easily joined one of the big 2 (PML-N, PP) and the premiership would come to him sooner or later his intentions our sincere he is constantly trying to improve and overcome his past mistakes these things are enough for me to get behind him.

[Xuhaib]

That Babar Ghauri joke yes its tasteless especially for someone who might be a head of state one day but making a joke about somebody's skin color is really not that big an issue in Pakistan as it is in west. We don't share the same history with the black people like the white people do,its similar to the use of the **** word which is a slur in UK but considered short form of Pakistani else where

[Agent Nationaux]

You have to realise that the Mullah Umar's Taliban is different to TTP. TTP was conceived after US's Invasion of Afghanistan and that they are only attacking Pakistan. Mullah Umar himself has rejected the TTP. His Taliban is the very group that the US supported before 9/11. The US had no problems with them taking over Afghanistan. They only have a problem now because they are fighting for their homeland. The Afghan Taliban are harsh in their beliefs but that is no reason to invade. Imran is concerned with his country only for the time being and therefore he is only looking towards the TTP. Mullah Umar offered Bin Ladin to the US but they refused, they wanted Afghanistan and he never helped Bin Ladin or Al Qaida. The Afghan taliban use guns, IDE's and conventional weapons when fighting. They don't use suicide bombs or children like the TTP. And when have they blown up markets and Masjids.

[Fusion]

Xuhaib and Agent – I actually respect the ideals you are looking for in Imran. I just think you have built up a hero that doesn’t actually measure up to your ideals. I think Imran is deeply flawed. I could live with that except I think those flaws have the potential to destroy Pakistan. Xuhaib- you say that perhaps he Imran was soft on terrorists/extremists because he was politically naïve or needed to stay relevant. If he unequivocally starts to denounce those extremists, in as loud a voice as he denounces the US, then perhaps I’ll start to change my mind on him. Until he does though, I’ll continue to think he’s a danger to the future of Pakistan.

[Agent Nationaux]

Is it crap that Imran supported the removal of Nawaz because of him being a corrupt bastard? Yes it is, but he has emerged from that, and we should judge him on his actions from now and not what he did in the past in his political infancy. Name me one leader who was perfect or who did not make mistakes in his past.

[Agent Nationaux]

Why do you care about the future of Pakistan anyway?

[Xuhaib]

he's already denouncing those elements but he's doing it subtly which is good as he can't afford to take these elements head on at this point.

No presence of JI in his jalsa musical performances by Strings & Roy he specially talked about the rights of the minorities all these things are a positive sign imo.

[Agent Nationaux]

I don't treat Imran as a prophet, I am just tired of the crap that Pakistanis has had to deal with over the last 60 years and would like someone who is different and honest. Pakistan has no other hope other than Imran. If we continue on this path, we will be destroyed anyway.

[Agent Nationaux]

He has denounced TTP so many times, why are you still on about that.

[G.I.Joe]

Originally Posted by Agent Nationaux

As for GI Joe, this was never Pakistan's war. The US is using our bases, they have caused billions in damage to our roads for the transportation of their supply's using heavy trucks. And we allow them to supply their soldiers in Afghanistan. The compensation that they are giving us whilst meagre, is paying for all these things. So why should they expect us to do more, if they don't want to pay for it. Their war has also caused a negative effect to our economy and Pakistan has lost thousands of civilian and military lives.

Staying in Afghanistan is also an ideal solution for the US. They can keep an eye on Russia, China, India and Pak.

I thought you guys believed in fighting terror? Nice to see you've suddenly developed a 'conscience' now that the 'compensation' is starting to dry up. Very convenient. And please spare everyone the claptrap about the Taliban fighting for their country. They're fighting for control of a people, which is an entirely different and sinister concept.

[Fusion]

Originally Posted by Agent Nationaux

Why do you care about the future of Pakistan anyway?

Really? So if I don't support Saint Imran, I don't really care about the future of Pakistan? I'm disappointed Agent, I expect better from you.

[Agent Nationaux]

Originally Posted by G.I.Joe

I thought you guys believed in fighting terror? Nice to see you've suddenly developed a 'conscience' now that the 'compensation' is starting to dry up. Very convenient. And please spare everyone the claptrap about the Taliban fighting for their country. They're fighting for control of a people, which is an entirely different and sinister concept.

What utter rubbish.

I have always had a conscience. My concern has always been for the safety and well being of Pak. I have always been against aid because it makes us subservient to the US and it never goes to the people. However business is business and nothing is free, so if the US wants to use our roads and bases then they should pay up. And we do believe in fighting terror. I have always believed in fighting TTP, which should be eradicated but Afghan Taliban aren't a concern to us or any other country. They only a concern to the US military and that isn't Pakistan nor anyone else's problem.

Afghan Talibs are fighting fir their land and so would anyone else if a foreigner invaded. By the way the US fully supported them before 9/11

[Agent Nationaux]

Sorry to have disappointed you Fusion but my question was in no way in relation to Imran, nor was it meant to cause offence. I was just curious to know of your intentions regarding Pak. You want Pak to move away from terrorists and so do I, but you also want it to be dependent on the US which by the way won't last as a super power for a very long time. So why don't you want Pak to work towards being self dependent which means to me that you aren't overly concerned.

[G.I.Joe]

Originally Posted by Agent Nationaux

What utter rubbish.

I have always had a conscience. My concern has always been for the safety and well being of Pak. I have always been against aid because it makes us subservient to the US and it never goes to the people. However business is business and nothing is free, so if the US wants to use our roads and bases then they should pay up. And we do believe in fighting terror. I have always believed in fighting TTP, which should be eradicated but Afghan Taliban aren't a concern to us or any other country. They only a concern to the US military and that isn't Pakistan nor anyone else's problem.

Afghan Talibs are fighting fir their land and so would anyone else if a foreigner invaded. By the way the US fully supported them before 9/11

I meant the conscience of the country. Thought it was perfectly clear.

The Taliban is everybody's concern. They are everybody's problem. The fact that there were only three countries on the entire planet that recognised their regime should have been an immediate clue. They're fighting for control so they can once again subjugate an entire people as they attempted earlier.