The Official Pakistan Politics thread

[Agent Nationaux]

Originally Posted by Black_Warrior

Look, racism exists everywhere. I have faced racism in Australia..A landlord refused to rent me his place after he heard my name. Especially today when we live in such a polarised and volatile world, identity has become such a serious issue in politics..these are extremely volatile times and everyone's experience is going to be different..which is why it is so difficult to understand a situation unless you are actually there. There might be Muslims/Pakistanis who faced racism in America..The situation last year during the whole 'Ground Zero' Mosque fiasco, add that with American foreign policy and it is very easy to conclude that America as a nation is out there to hurt Muslims or Islam or Pakistan. Not true. The moment it becomes an issue of religion, or nationality, or identity, its over. I know it is extremely difficult to not make it an issue of identity especially when politicians and the media exploit identity politics, but we would be making a grave mistake if we succumb to that. You have to remember that most people in this world are just plain dumb and lazy. They do not want to exercise their minds and they succumb to the kind of trash the mainstream corporate media feeds them. Its not that they are inherently hateful or racist. I do not doubt the experiences faced by Faisal1985 at all because I know people are dumb and they behave like that in times like this. But that is just human nature.. Most people are neither tolerant or intolerant..they are just in the middle..yet when the times change, and the situation becomes volatile, they react in ways that might be considered intolerant. I hear incidents and experiences mentioned by Faisal1985 all the time but they do not surprise me because I do not expect a great deal of intelligence and sense from most people..regardless of race, nationality or religion. Most people are not very well read, have a lot of their own personal frustrations, watch the news for 1 hour where they are fed bull crap, and they react in the way they do. But it would be unfair to give it any more importance than it deserves and conclude that an entire nation is out there to attack Muslims.

At the same time I do not like Fusion's argument of comparing the treatment of minorities in Pakistan or the Muslim world with that of America. That is very bad argument precisely because America has to be better than them. The Muslim world is not known for its human rights. There is a reason why most of the Muslim countries have such strong Armies rather than air force or navy...because they need that army against their own people. That's how they have been functioning since colonialism. But America is the leading country of the world and it is known for its human rights (at least inside America) and its constitution. The day America starts comparing its own human rights record with that of the Muslim world's, then its a very sad day indeed.

American foreign policy is not at all different to any of the ruling empires in history. If you read history enough, you will realize that the world has always been the same, on the verge of tearing itself apart. At the same time it is important to realize that America is a nation is still the greatest nation on earth because of its civil society. I have never seen a civil society like that of America anywhere in the world. Yes certain post 9/11 laws in America are a bit draconian, but once again if you look at history, you will see that most empires have reacted with laws like that when under threat.

So from Pakistan's perspective, yes American foreign policy is dreadful, and yes America treats Pakistan like ****, and yes Pakistan dug its own graveyard by getting involved in the war, but we should not let that cloud our judgement and ignore the fact that America is the nation that respects and values its own citizens the most, regardless of colour, race and religion. It is the nation where immigrants have been the most successful.



Ok I admit..I have a soft spot for America ..its been my dream country since childhood..I can't help it..its been the number 1 country since my childhood..I love American movies..I love American music (not the current ones)..how can I hate America just because its foreign policy is imperialistic

Great Post. But can't help get frustrated and angry though because of American foreign policy.

Originally Posted by Black_Warrior

Faisal1985, you're not meant to be reveal on a public forum about our hidden agenda to take over the world and establish Shariah law on Western land...now see you just scared PEWS.

We also have a secret agenda of reproducing as much as possible in order to overpopulate the planet with Muslims.

[smalishah84]

Originally Posted by Black_Warrior

Look, racism exists everywhere. I have faced racism in Australia..A landlord refused to rent me his place after he heard my name. Especially today when we live in such a polarised and volatile world, identity has become such a serious issue in politics..these are extremely volatile times and everyone's experience is going to be different..which is why it is so difficult to understand a situation unless you are actually there. There might be Muslims/Pakistanis who faced racism in America..The situation last year during the whole 'Ground Zero' Mosque fiasco, add that with American foreign policy and it is very easy to conclude that America as a nation is out there to hurt Muslims or Islam or Pakistan. Not true. The moment it becomes an issue of religion, or nationality, or identity, its over. I know it is extremely difficult to not make it an issue of identity especially when politicians and the media exploit identity politics, but we would be making a grave mistake if we succumb to that. You have to remember that most people in this world are just plain dumb and lazy. They do not want to exercise their minds and they succumb to the kind of trash the mainstream corporate media feeds them. Its not that they are inherently hateful or racist. I do not doubt the experiences faced by Faisal1985 at all because I know people are dumb and they behave like that in times like this. But that is just human nature.. Most people are neither tolerant or intolerant..they are just in the middle..yet when the times change, and the situation becomes volatile, they react in ways that might be considered intolerant. I hear incidents and experiences mentioned by Faisal1985 all the time but they do not surprise me because I do not expect a great deal of intelligence and sense from most people..regardless of race, nationality or religion. Most people are not very well read, have a lot of their own personal frustrations, watch the news for 1 hour where they are fed bull crap, and they react in the way they do. But it would be unfair to give it any more importance than it deserves and conclude that an entire nation is out there to attack Muslims.

At the same time I do not like Fusion's argument of comparing the treatment of minorities in Pakistan or the Muslim world with that of America. That is very bad argument precisely because America has to be better than them. The Muslim world is not known for its human rights. There is a reason why most of the Muslim countries have such strong Armies rather than air force or navy...because they need that army against their own people. That's how they have been functioning since colonialism. But America is the leading country of the world and it is known for its human rights (at least inside America) and its constitution. The day America starts comparing its own human rights record with that of the Muslim world's, then its a very sad day indeed.

American foreign policy is not at all different to any of the ruling empires in history. If you read history enough, you will realize that the world has always been the same, on the verge of tearing itself apart. At the same time it is important to realize that America is a nation is still the greatest nation on earth because of its civil society. I have never seen a civil society like that of America anywhere in the world. Yes certain post 9/11 laws in America are a bit draconian, but once again if you look at history, you will see that most empires have reacted with laws like that when under threat.

So from Pakistan's perspective, yes American foreign policy is dreadful, and yes America treats Pakistan like ****, and yes Pakistan dug its own graveyard by getting involved in the war, but we should not let that cloud our judgement and ignore the fact that America is the nation that respects and values its own citizens the most, regardless of colour, race and religion. It is the nation where immigrants have been the most successful.



Ok I admit..I have a soft spot for America ..its been my dream country since childhood..I can't help it..its been the number 1 country since my childhood..I love American movies..I love American music (not the current ones)..how can I hate America just because its foreign policy is imperialistic

I think that most people here agree that it is the American foriegn policy and not the American people that a lot of people have a problem with.

Although you said nothing new but nice post

[Black_Warrior]

Originally Posted by smalishah84

Although you said nothing new but nice post

It is new because I am not saying most people are inherently good or bad..I am saying most people irrespective of nationality, race and religion are just plain dumb so when they are being racist or intolerant, don't take them seriously.

[smalishah84]

Originally Posted by Black_Warrior

It is new because I am not saying most people are inherently good or bad..I am saying most people irrespective of nationality, race and religion are just plain dumb so when they are being racist or intolerant, don't take them seriously.

Easier said than done BW..........

Faisal left his area for Canada and if this was the main motivation for him leaving then it must be somewhat serious.

[Fusion]

[smalishah84]

tbf.....Imran did mention in his last interview that he will end corruption at the top in 90 days.

My counter question to PTI bashers is always the same. Is Imran better than Zardari (and Nawaz) or not?

Not a big fan of fox news but somewhat of a reminder to the PPP lovers on here

Benazir Bhutto - YouTube

[smalishah84]

does anybody reckon Mush is serious about this?

I will return between 27-30 January: Musharraf | Pakistan | DAWN.COM

[Agent Nationaux]

Originally Posted by Fusion

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by Fusion

Almost like Ron Paul. Except the female following part.

[Xuhaib]

Fusion that was so 2009.

Imran still has a lot of improvement to do but over the past couple of years he has been pretty consistent with his agenda and political views.

[Cevno]

His part has become a revolving door for all old politicans who are disgruntled from other parties, and he is possibly tying up with Musharraf though.

[Xuhaib]

I see the point but he needs some of those old faces to win the seats I am happy he's finally realized a Mandela or Arab spring like revolution is not going to happen in Pakistan and he has to play good ol' politics like everyone.

[Xuhaib]

Why do people mock Imran that he compares running a country to running a cricket team. Imran managed a cricket team which many experts argue is the most difficult cricket team to man manage in the entire cricketing world perhaps the whole sporting world aswell.Has established one of the best managed hospitals of the sub continent and then set up a world class educational institution in a remort area like Mianwali, his resume looks far better then then any one of his competitors Zardari, Musharraf, Nawaz.

[smalishah84]

Originally Posted by Xuhaib

Why do people mock Imran that he compares running a country to running a cricket team. Imran managed a cricket team which many experts argue is the most difficult cricket team to man manage in the entire cricketing world perhaps the whole sporting world aswell.Has established one of the best managed hospitals of the sub continent and then set up a world class educational institution in a remort area like Mianwali, his resume looks far better then then any one of his competitors Zardari, Musharraf, Nawaz.

This......

[smalishah84]

The point is that some people would like to just go on criticizing him without giving any alternative.

The alternatives that they do give are much much less than what Imran brings to the table