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Thread: The Official Pakistan Politics thread

  1. #391
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    World has turned blind eye towards Pakistan ?

  2. #392
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.I.Joe View Post
    Question is why should the Taliban not be destroyed.
    Is this what the US is really looking for after 10 years in the region???

    Hillary Clinton admits US held meeting with Haqqani network - Telegraph
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

    Yeah we don't crap in the first world; most of us would actually have no idea what that was emanating from Ajmal's backside. Why isn't it roses and rainbows like what happens here? PEWS's retort to Ganeshran on Daemon's picture depicting Ajmal's excreta

  3. #393
    Cricketer Of The Year Agent Nationaux's Avatar
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    The Taliban aren't the best people, but what alternative is there in Afghanistan. The US wants the northern alliance in power but I remember what they would do to anyone they caught when the US first invaded. Cutting open throats and pouring petrol in and then setting fire to the person. Yes it's a great alternative. No one has even given the Talibs a chance to rule the country. When they were about to takeover all of Afghanistan the US invades. The aggression you see on their part is because they are trying to control their war torn country. How do you know what their policies would be once they stabilise the country. Afghanistan is been in a war like state for over 3 decades, what else did you expect.
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Yeah, look, it gives me a pain deep inside my uterus to admit it, but it's Ajmal until such time as we get a working throwing law again.
    Never in a million years would I have thought Brumby to admit this!!!!!!

  4. #394
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    agree with some of what you have to say there Agent.

    There was lot of violence when the Soviets left after afghanistan and the world let Afghanistan bleed.

    The Northern Alliance as you mention were doing a lot of sick things as well. IIRC the Taliban were initially being welcomed by the Afghans because they brought in some semblance of order to the war torn country. The Taliban weren't angels tbf but they seemed a better alternative than the rest.


  5. #395
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Nationaux View Post
    The Taliban aren't the best people, but what alternative is there in Afghanistan. The US wants the northern alliance in power but I remember what they would do to anyone they caught when the US first invaded. Cutting open throats and pouring petrol in and then setting fire to the person. Yes it's a great alternative. No one has even given the Talibs a chance to rule the country. When they were about to takeover all of Afghanistan the US invades. The aggression you see on their part is because they are trying to control their war torn country. How do you know what their policies would be once they stabilise the country. Afghanistan is been in a war like state for over 3 decades, what else did you expect.
    It doesn't matter if the Taliban are good people of not. What matters is what the People of Afghanistan want. The world can not fight their battle for them, if they don't want the Taliban.


    And It is a fallacy to suggest that the world has not seen the Taliban rule in Afghanistan, we have seen enough to know that they are barbarians. There is enough evidence that shows who the Taliban really are.

  6. #396
    Cricketer Of The Year Agent Nationaux's Avatar
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    No we haven't seen enough. No one has seen them rule a stable Afghanistan. I really don't think they will be worse than the Saudis, who restrict their women in every way possible and are strict Wahabis, but no one does anything about it.

    Sanz, if there was a better alternative than the Taliban, I would support that, but the Northern Alliance are not an alternative because they are worse and also because they aren't Pushtoon, so will never be supported by the Afghan population which is mainly Pushtoon. You might disagree with that but let me remind you that Afghaistan has never been controlled by a foreign nation/occupier/tribes because of the extremely tribal nature of Pushtoons. They never support anyone outside their race.
    Last edited by Agent Nationaux; 03-12-2011 at 09:18 AM.

  7. #397
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    I am not sure how the Taliban are a better alternative for the rest of the world than the Northern Alliance tbh, especially when they want to mantain a arms movement and not get involved in the mainstream. The Al Qaeda was a product of their rule and they have clearly overtly and discreetly supported terrorist whose aim was to conquer the country/region/world and even protected Hijacked planes among other things openly for them.
    Once they are weakened militarily, then they can be brought into the mainstream of a democracy perhaps with talks but unless that happens they will again do the same thing and promote extremism as they were doing before.

  8. #398
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Nationaux View Post
    No we haven't seen enough. No one has seen them rule a stable Afghanistan. I really don't think they will be worse than the Saudis, who restrict their women in every way possible and are strict Wahabis, but no one does anything about it.

    Sanz, if there was a better alternative than the Taliban, I would support that, but the Northern Alliance are not an alternative because they are worse and also because they aren't Pushtoon, so will never be supported by the Afghan population which is mainly Pushtoon. You might disagree with that but let me remind you that Afghaistan has never been controlled by a foreign nation/occupier/tribes because of the extremely tribal nature of Pushtoons. They never support anyone outside their race.
    I don't think you understood what I wanted to say. I don't care if Taliban are good people or bad people as long as they do not interfere with my way of living.

    Whether the Taliban should be ruling Afghanistan is not something for me or (IMO) the world to decide. It is the Afghan people who need to decide who they want to rule their country.

  9. #399
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Nationaux View Post
    No we haven't seen enough. No one has seen them rule a stable Afghanistan. I really don't think they will be worse than the Saudis, who restrict their women in every way possible and are strict Wahabis, but no one does anything about it.

    Sanz, if there was a better alternative than the Taliban, I would support that, but the Northern Alliance are not an alternative because they are worse and also because they aren't Pushtoon, so will never be supported by the Afghan population which is mainly Pushtoon. You might disagree with that but let me remind you that Afghaistan has never been controlled by a foreign nation/occupier/tribes because of the extremely tribal nature of Pushtoons. They never support anyone outside their race.
    The fact that Pashtun's are in majority does not mean that the Taliban can be allowed to come in a torture/kill the rest and even other pushtoon groups as they were in the past and support terrorism.

    Yes, the Saudi's are really bad on most counts, and the northern alliance are no saints but that does no mean that Taliban should be allowed to do what they were doing in the past and even now after becoming a armed rebellion movement promoting extremism and their rule only.

    In any case the problem to Taliban was never initially, what was happening internally in the countrym but the fact that they were supporting groups and organisations that were clearly terrorist like Al Qaeda and threatening other countries. And the worst part was that they were justifying this and remaining defiant when they were attacked too and are till now. How can you expect the Americans to invest so much and then allow the organisation promoting anti - Western sentiments.extremism and terrorist activities to get back by the way of military and terrorist power once they leave?

  10. #400
    Cricketer Of The Year Xuhaib's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.I.Joe View Post
    It's radical fundamentalism that needs to be destroyed. Al Qaeda was just one of the manifestations. Question is why should the Taliban not be destroyed.
    when the same radical fundamentalism becomes your oil supplier suddenly they become your friends and you do every god damned possible business with these same fundoos.

  11. #401
    International Coach G.I.Joe's Avatar
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    The presence of oil in the region as a motive does nothing to invalidate the fact that the Taliban are a blight on the face of the planet. False dichotomies FTL.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    If GI 'Best Poster On The Forum' Joe says it then it must be true.
    Athlai doesn't lie. And he doesn't do sarcasm either, so you know it's true!

  12. #402
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanz View Post
    I don't think you understood what I wanted to say. I don't care if Taliban are good people or bad people as long as they do not interfere with my way of living.

    Whether the Taliban should be ruling Afghanistan is not something for me or (IMO) the world to decide. It is the Afghan people who need to decide who they want to rule their country.
    Errr......How?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    The fact that Pashtun's are in majority does not mean that the Taliban can be allowed to come in a torture/kill the rest and even other pushtoon groups as they were in the past and support terrorism.
    Agreed. Are other groups allowed to come and and torture/kill them (it has happened in the past)???



    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    Yes, the Saudi's are really bad on most counts, and the northern alliance are no saints but that does no mean that Taliban should be allowed to do what they were doing in the past and even now after becoming a armed rebellion movement promoting extremism and their rule only.
    I think everybody here agrees to the fact that not everything the Taliban were doing was great. Do you have an alternative?



    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    In any case the problem to Taliban was never initially, what was happening internally in the countrym but the fact that they were supporting groups and organisations that were clearly terrorist like Al Qaeda and threatening other countries. And the worst part was that they were justifying this and remaining defiant when they were attacked too and are till now. How can you expect the Americans to invest so much and then allow the organisation promoting anti - Western sentiments.extremism and terrorist activities to get back by the way of military and terrorist power once they leave?
    btw IIRC (not sure since this happened way back) at some point in time the Taliban were even willing to hand over Osama to the Hague. They wanted a face saving way out and did not want to hand him over directly to the USA.

  13. #403
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.I.Joe View Post
    The presence of oil in the region as a motive does nothing to invalidate the fact that the Taliban are a blight on the face of the planet. False dichotomies FTL.
    I think you miss the point.

    The question arises that IF radical fundamentalism is to be deplored and destroyed then why are their some sacred cows who do the exact same thing yet become the closest of friends???

    If that is the case then accept that there is double standards and hypocrisy.
    Last edited by smalishah84; 03-12-2011 at 11:07 AM.

  14. #404
    Cricketer Of The Year Agent Nationaux's Avatar
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    As Smali pointed out, the Talibs wanted to hand over Bin Ladin. And they haven't been allowing foreign terrorists to set up base in Afghanistan. Once in power do you think they would allow any foreign entity (Muslim or non Muslim) to set up shop in their house? The fact that they weren't in power by the time of US invasion shows that these foreigners like Bin Ladin have been operating before their time, since the Soviet occupation. This is because Afghanistan has been a lawless state without any stability and control. It's like Pakistan where foreign Muslim terrorists from places like Europe, Middle East and US are being caught by the military. Doesn't mean that the Pakistan government supports these groups.

    What example of terrorism do Taliban support anyway, apart from oppressing their people?

    And as I have said before, the Taliban have never been interested in events outside Afghanistan, therefore they are not a threat to the rest of the world.

  15. #405
    International Coach G.I.Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    I think you miss the point.

    The question arises that IF radical fundamentalism is to be deplored and destroyed then why are their some sacred cows who do the exact same thing yet become the closest of friends???

    If that is the case then accept that there is double standards and hypocrisy.
    I don't miss that point. I just think it's not pragmatic to follow that line of reasoning. They might be hypocrites and there might be a double standard at play, but that does not form a basis for demanding inaction in a particular instance where it is clearly desirable for action to be taken. There is no room for an all or none approach here.



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