Gay marriage views?

[silentstriker]

So basically you wanted to show the potential downsides of 'logic and reason' and the guy you used to demonstrate this was Stalin?

Err....

[Redbacks]

Originally Posted by silentstriker

So basically you wanted to show the potential downsides of 'logic and reason' and the guy you used to demonstrate this was Stalin?

Err....

followed dogmatically, yes.

Pancritical Rationalism FTW!

[silentstriker]

I can't believe I have to say this as it may be the biggest understatement of all time but the words logic or rationality cannot be associated with the actions of people like Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc.

[Anil]

Originally Posted by silentstriker

I can't believe I have to say this as it may be the biggest understatement of all time but the words logic or rationality cannot be associated with the actions of people like Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc.

exactly, they are some of the biggest megalomaniacs history has ever seen...

[G.I.Joe]

Originally Posted by silentstriker

While I am definitely opposed to capital punishment, I think the issue is killing the innocent vs. killing someone convicted of a crime. Again, you and I may disagree with it, but there is at least a logical process involved in their rationalizations.

I think Anil may have skipped over this post.

[Anil]

Originally Posted by G.I.Joe

I think Anil may have skipped over this post.

nope i didn't but you may have skipped over this one...

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

It's selective logic though. Supporting capital punishment isn't consistent with the 'sanctity of life' argument.

[GingerFurball]

Originally Posted by Redbacks

Btw. David Cameron just last week at the Tory conference said he "supports gay marraige, because he is a conservative" would be intersting to hear a more detailed view of his position.

Different connotations of the word 'conservative' in the UK; it's not associated with fundamentalist religious nutjobs the way it is in the US. If you look at a lot of Cameron's policies (which admittedly I haven't really done, because the UK government has little day to day effect on my life), but Cameron seems to be an advocate of choice when it comes to education etc. His support for gay marriage is an extension of that belief.

[G.I.Joe]

Originally Posted by Anil

nope i didn't but you may have skipped over this one...

I didn't. You might not agree with the stance of weighing life differently in accordance with the choices made by a person (or the fact that some are not in position to be afforded that choice), but it nevertheless is a stance that has some grounding as a principle. You chose to respond to the point with a crude generalisation, unless you skipped over it and had mis-quoted.

[Anil]

Originally Posted by G.I.Joe

I didn't. You might not agree with the stance of weighing life differently in accordance with the choices made by a person (or the fact that some are not in position to be afforded that choice), but it nevertheless is a stance that has some grounding as a principle. You chose to respond to the point with a crude generalisation, unless you skipped over it and had mis-quoted.

well of course it was a generalization but there was nothing crude about it...it is true about the current day typical right wing social conservative in the u.s...and yes i do consider the stance contradictory and sanctimonious/hypocritical with no grounding in any consistent principle...

[G.I.Joe]

Originally Posted by Anil

well of course it was a generalization but there was nothing crude about it...it is true about the current day typical right wing social conservative in the u.s...and yes i do consider the stance contradictory and sanctimonious/hypocritical with no grounding in any consistent principle...

If a person believes that guilt is a determinant factor, that he supports capital punishment, but not the killing of what he considers innocent life, what is that exactly contradictory to? It's only inconsistent if that person also professes to considering all life sanctimonious. You're lumping two different classes of people together, and it is indeed a crude generalisation.

[Anil]

Originally Posted by G.I.Joe

If a person believes that guilt is a determinant factor, that he supports capital punishment, but not the killing of what he considers innocent life, what is that exactly contradictory to? It's only inconsistent if that person also professes to considering all life sanctimonious. You're lumping two different classes of people together, and it is indeed a crude generalisation.

the "sanctity of life" argument put forward by pro-lifers supposedly holds all human life sacred...whatever they may mean by sacred...there are no exceptions in that basic argument...but when the same people believe in capital punishment (in an obviously flawed judicial system) and pre-emptive wars, they are contradicting themselves...and when they are called upon to justify their stance conveniently alter their "principle" at the altar of expediency and even quote from the christian bible to "emphasize" their "point"...for me this is sheer hypocrisy and shows that there is no grounding in any consistent moral principle (outside of the bible of course which is anyway riddled with contradictions) for what these people believe...i don't know whether you are arguing for the sake of arguing or you actually believe in your comments...but i do know that i am not interested in repeating myself again and again and indulging in cyclical arguments...

[silentstriker]

You are confusing the issue. The issue is not whether a religious text or a religious belief system is always self consistent and non contradictory - that is a separate argument.

The focus is much more narrow: whether it is possible to have a logical thought process that would allow you to be opposed to abortion while being in favor of capital punishment. I did not bring religion into my argument because even on this forum there are several pro life people who are not religious (though I don't know their stance on capital punishment). No doubt the majority of pro life people are religious but the point is that there is a clear logical and moral difference between punishing the innocent vs punishing the guilty. What they believe on other issues such as the Iraq war is irrelevant to this particular logical process.

[Anil]

Originally Posted by silentstriker

You are confusing the issue. The issue is not whether a religious text or a religious belief system is always self consistent and non contradictory - that is a separate argument.

The focus is much more narrow: whether it is possible to have a logical thought process that would allow you to be opposed to abortion while being in favor of capital punishment. I did not bring religion into my argument because even on this forum there are several pro life people who are not religious (though I don't know their stance on capital punishment). No doubt the majority of pro life people are religious but the point is that there is a clear logical and moral difference between punishing the innocent vs punishing the guilty. What they believe on other issues such as the Iraq war is irrelevant to this particular logical process.

i was talking about a specific group of people and my arguments are consistent for them including religion...i know you didn't bring religion in and i did but i believe it clearly applies to the mindset i was referring to...and as i mentioned in my first post on the topic, there are exceptions and i am not alluding to them...

[smalishah84]

To the OP......NO

[wellAlbidarned]

Originally Posted by smalishah84

To the OP......NO

Elaborate please?