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Thread: ***Official*** Religious Discussion Thread

  1. #31
    Global Moderator nightprowler10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    Holy ****, we have this thread? Joy to the world.

    Please can we keep religious tangents not directly related to the topic in here from now on kthx.
    It only took 4 ****ing years for you mods to do this?

    Oh wait, right.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    Holy ****, we have this thread? Joy to the world.

    Please can we keep religious tangents not directly related to the topic in here from now on kthx.
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  4. #34
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    This is nice, but to be consistent the Pope would have to say that God is equally responsible for both the failures and successes in evolutionary biology. Also, as an omnipotent genetic engineer he would also have to be equally responsible for both Congenital Blindness and perfect vision.

    Unfortunately, the Pope's pronouncement creates just as many philosophical problems as it solves if one is to continue with the idea that God is all caring and all benevolent. Of course, if God has all the capricious characteristics of a god like Zeus then there are no philosophical problems, or apparent inconsistencies to contend with. Perhaps the ancient Greeks got the nature of God correct in the first place?

    Pope Francis: 'Evolution Is Not Inconsistent With The Notion Of Creation'

    VATICAN CITY (RNS) Pope Francis on Monday (Oct. 27) waded into the controversial debate over the origins of human life, saying the big bang theory did not contradict the role of a divine creator, but even required it.

    The pope was addressing the plenary assembly of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, which gathered at the Vatican to discuss “Evolving Concepts of Nature.”

    “When we read about Creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so,” Francis said.

    “He created human beings and let them develop according to the internal laws that he gave to each one so they would reach their fulfillment.”

    Francis said the beginning of the world was not “a work of chaos” but created from a principle of love. He said sometimes competing beliefs in creation and evolution could co-exist.

    “God is not a divine being or a magician, but the Creator who brought everything to life,” the pope said. “Evolution in nature is not inconsistent with the notion of creation, because evolution requires the creation of beings that evolve.”

    Unlike much of evangelical Protestantism in the U.S., Catholic teaching traditionally has not been at odds with evolution. In 1950, Pope Pius XII proclaimed there was no opposition between evolution and Catholic doctrine. In 1996, St. John Paul II endorsed Pius’ statement.

    Some wondered if Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI wanted to change that when he and some acolytes seemed to endorse the theory of intelligent design, the idea that the world is too complex to have evolved according to Charles Darwin’s theory of natural selection. Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn of Vienna, a close associate of Benedict, penned a widely noticed 2005 op-ed in The New York Times that said “Evolution in the sense of common ancestry might be true, but evolution in the neo-Darwinian sense — an unguided, unplanned process … is not.”

    Giovanni Bignami, a professor and president of Italy’s National Institute for Astrophysics, welcomed Francis’ comments, saying he had buried the “pseudo theories” of creationists.

    “The pope’s statement is significant,” Bignami told Italian news agency Adnkronos. “We are the direct descendents from the Big Bang that created the universe. Evolution came from creation.”

    Giulio Giorello, professor of the philosophy of science at Milan’s University degli Studi, said he believed Francis was “trying to reduce the emotion of dispute or presumed disputes” with science.

    Francis made his speech while unveiling a bust in honor of Benedict, his predecessor, at the Vatican.

    “Benedict XVI was a great pope: great for the power and penetration of his intellect, great for his significant contribution to theology, great for his love of the church and of human beings, great for his virtue and piety,” he said.

    Pope Francis: 'Evolution Is Not Inconsistent With The Notion Of Creation'
    Last edited by watson; 28-10-2014 at 02:53 PM.
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  5. #35
    The artist formerly known as Monk Red Hill's Avatar
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    Any cursory reading of the Old Testament reveals that God is indeed capricious.

    I recommend these books highly to people who are interested in the nature and character of God in the Judeo/Christian texts:

    A History of God - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    God: A Biography - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  6. #36
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pasag View Post
    Islam - slightly unoriginal, hard to understand in places, great action scenes - 6/10.
    pasag wag he was.
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  7. #37
    International Coach Anil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    pasag wag he was.
    what happened to him?

  8. #38
    Hall of Fame Member duffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anil View Post
    what happened to him?
    Jono started stalking him after our CW meetup. He's in hiding now.
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    True, a Duffer "heh" is like 50 likes.

  9. #39
    International Coach Anil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    This is nice, but to be consistent the Pope would have to say that God is equally responsible for both the failures and successes in evolutionary biology. Also, as an omnipotent genetic engineer he would also have to be equally responsible for both Congenital Blindness and perfect vision.

    Unfortunately, the Pope's pronouncement creates just as many philosophical problems as it solves if one is to continue with the idea that God is all caring and all benevolent. Of course, if God has all the capricious characteristics of a god like Zeus then there are no philosophical problems, or apparent inconsistencies to contend with. Perhaps the ancient Greeks got the nature of God correct in the first place?
    i don't really trust this pope as a lot of atheists seem to do…from what i heard, he was a very conservative leader of the church in argentina and it is clear that he is trying to overhaul his image and the image of the catholic church to bring in more members especially from groups that the church had formerly opposed…you don't have to dig deep to figure out that there is nothing liberal or modern about what he preaches...

  10. #40
    Hall of Fame Member Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hill View Post
    Any cursory reading of the Old Testament reveals that God is indeed capricious.

    I recommend these books highly to people who are interested in the nature and character of God in the Judeo/Christian texts:

    A History of God - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    God: A Biography - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I made a long post but am deleting now RedHill. I suggested in it that Atheists shouldn't be allowed to critique God by calling him capricious because it is illogical to critique something that doesn't exist and is imaginary.

    However my atheist room mate took your case up for you and pointed out to me that there are many different reasons why people don't believe in God - one of which is that they may find how God comes across in the bible to be unappealing - and you may fall into that category.

    Thanks

    Please ignore me and carry on.
    Last edited by Hurricane; 31-10-2014 at 01:01 AM.
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  11. #41
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    You can critique the characters in any fictional book. That's what English Literature is.
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  12. #42
    U19 Vice-Captain Munificent_Fool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.ag View Post
    Okay, so what are your views on dealing with something like this?


    Shame of Britain's Muslim schools: Secret filming shows pupils beaten | Daily Mail Online
    Question answers itself. They need to do away with monarchy and tradition and institute a proper secular constitution which forbids government from having anything to do with religion. Separation of church and state, religion and politics, is about as cogent and sensible an idea as anything evolved and advanced human society.

    Faith schools are bull****. Not one dollar of tax payer money should subsidise them.

  13. #43
    International Coach Agent Nationaux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Munificent_Fool View Post
    Question answers itself. They need to do away with monarchy and tradition and institute a proper secular constitution which forbids government from having anything to do with religion. Separation of church and state, religion and politics, is about as cogent and sensible an idea as anything evolved and advanced human society.

    Faith schools are bull****. Not one dollar of tax payer money should subsidise them.
    Something we agree on.

  14. #44
    U19 Vice-Captain Munificent_Fool's Avatar
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    That's rather disconcerting. Could be portentous of something very sinister. All the birds are falling out of all the trees outside my window. You?


  15. #45
    International Coach Agent Nationaux's Avatar
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    Haha

    You aren't the only one feeling uneasy about this.

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