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Thread: The American Politics thread

  1. #1366
    Global Moderator Fusion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post

    If Obama wins, and/or Democrats hold on to the Senate, this will be Obama's legacy.
    This will be his legacy win or lose. Republicans can make all the noise they want about repealing it if they win the Presidency and take control of the Senate, but they simply won't have the votes to do it. It will take a super majority of 60 votes to repeal it in the Senate. Good luck with that Republicans.

  2. #1367
    Global Moderator Fusion's Avatar
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    I've seen this debate over universal health care before. We had it here in the mid-1980s after Medicare was brought in.

    I hope Obama wins and gets control of Congress, and I hope he then sets out to try and repair the broken ideology that's plagued America since Reagan. If he wins he has nothing to lose by having a crack. Should have done it already, and bet the second term on it. Though tbf to him, he inherited a massive mess courtesy of those who now seek to blame him for it.

    I think the latter is classic Right Wing Projection.
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  4. #1369
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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  5. #1370
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    I've seen this debate over universal health care before. We had it here in the mid-1980s after Medicare was brought in.

    I hope Obama wins and gets control of Congress, and I hope he then sets out to try and repair the broken ideology that's plagued America since Reagan. If he wins he has nothing to lose by having a crack. Should have done it already, and bet the second term on it. Though tbf to him, he inherited a massive mess courtesy of those who now seek to blame him for it.

    I think the latter is classic Right Wing Projection.
    I don't think ideology is America's big problem.

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  6. #1371
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion View Post
    This will be his legacy win or lose. Republicans can make all the noise they want about repealing it if they win the Presidency and take control of the Senate, but they simply won't have the votes to do it. It will take a super majority of 60 votes to repeal it in the Senate. Good luck with that Republicans.
    No you don't. Remember you didn't need 60 votes to pass the bill - they used budget reconciliation to pass it with 50+ votes (instead of 60), which is all you'd need to repeal it since that administrative trick is not subject to filibuster.
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  7. #1372
    Global Moderator Fusion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    No you don't. Remember you didn't need 60 votes to pass the bill - they used budget reconciliation to pass it with 50+ votes (instead of 60), which is all you'd need to repeal it since that administrative trick is not subject to filibuster.
    Yup, you're right. They can use that tactic to repeal most of the legislation, though not all. Of course it would be highly hypocritical of them after they claimed it was against the rules to use it in this type of legislation, but hypocrisy is the name of politics. The Republicans will still need to pick up 4 Senate seats to get to the 51 majority threshold though.

  8. #1373
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Has the whole law been upheld or has something been left out? Also, heard it has been declared a tax now. Would that harm or help Obama as he has been maintaining it's not one IIRC?

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    It was only really ever the individual mandate under question, so yeah, it's intact it would seem.

    The fact it's a tax hurts him simply because it's a tax (and indeed he was initially at pains to make sure it wasn't seen as a tax) but it's faaar less important than the fact that it got through/

  10. #1375
    Global Moderator Fusion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    Has the whole law been upheld or has something been left out? Also, heard it has been declared a tax now. Would that harm or help Obama as he has been maintaining it's not one IIRC?
    The entire law was upheld, including the key provision of the “individual mandate” ( although it was upheld as a “tax”). The only portion that was somewhat scalled down was the law requiring states to provide Medicaid coverage for virtually all poor Americans under the age of sixty-five or risk losing all of the Medicaid funding that they get from the government. The Court ruled that the government can’t withhold that funding from the states as a punishment, but can still attach strings to the new funding. So even if the government can’t take away all of the existing funding for states that don’t comply with the new eligibility requirements, the court ruled it can still withhold the NEW Medicaid funds if they don’t comply. Therefore most states are expected to comply.

    Now back to the individual mandate. The Obama administration would’ve liked the Court to uphold it on the basis of the Commerce clause of the Constitution. As a failsafe, they also argued that it was Constitutional as a “tax” (which Obama still maintained it wasn’t, so obviously double speak on his part). The Court ended up upholding it as a Tax, giving the Republicans a key slogan point – that the health care law is a massive tax hike. Never mind the fact that the “penalty” as Obama would classify it, or “tax” as Republicans and the Court would describe it, ONLY applies to those that don’t buy insurance. The Republicans of course will portray this as a new tax on everyone as a result of the law. Will it hurt Obama? Probably, though those that were against the law were going to vote against him anyway. It didn’t matter to them whether this was a tax or a penalty – they hated it either way.

  11. #1376
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    Great big new tax on everything!

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    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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  13. #1378
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion View Post
    Obamacare, including the individual mandate, survives!! Holy Cow I did not expect that to happen.


  14. #1379
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion View Post
    Now back to the individual mandate. The Obama administration would’ve liked the Court to uphold it on the basis of the Commerce clause of the Constitution. As a failsafe, they also argued that it was Constitutional as a “tax” (which Obama still maintained it wasn’t, so obviously double speak on his part). The Court ended up upholding it as a Tax, giving the Republicans a key slogan point – that the health care law is a massive tax hike. Never mind the fact that the “penalty” as Obama would classify it, or “tax” as Republicans and the Court would describe it, ONLY applies to those that don’t buy insurance. The Republicans of course will portray this as a new tax on everyone as a result of the law. Will it hurt Obama? Probably, though those that were against the law were going to vote against him anyway. It didn’t matter to them whether this was a tax or a penalty – they hated it either way.
    It is a tax only for those who do not buy the insurance and it is almost impossible to imagine that an individual would never need medical treatment or never walk into an emergency care seeking treatment and then the Hospitals wont be able to refuse them because of the EMTALA act passed by the Republican Government of Reagan.

    It is that law who encourages Americans to not buy Health Insurance because it allows them to get away with it by forcing the Hospitals to provide emergency care and that is one law that puts a lot of burden on those who prefer to buy health care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    The whole thing's a cluster****

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