The American Politics thread

[smalishah84]

I guess looks matter in the end

[G.I.Joe]

Originally Posted by vic_orthdox

Believe Nixon won the debate via all the radio polls, and Kennedy by those on TV.

Yup, those who only heard the debate on the radio were of the opinion that Nixon won it, and those who watched the exact same debate on the TV had Kennedy as the winner. It was what brought home the importance of appearances and body language to big time politics in the television age.

[Spikey]

maybe it was just a case of all the old people listening on radio and the young on tv

[silentstriker]

Originally Posted by G.I.Joe

Yup, those who only heard the debate on the radio were of the opinion that Nixon won it, and those who watched the exact same debate on the TV had Kennedy as the winner. It was what brought home the importance of appearances and body language to big time politics in the television age.

I know about this, and I haven't done any research but those without TVs might be more rural areas, who might perhaps be older and/or rural, which would cause them to lean Republican anyway (though back then there were still significant numbers of southern democrats - until the civil rights act turned them into republicans). Clearly having a partisan lean affects how you view the debates especially if it's close (and often even if it's not).

I wonder if anyone here has heard/read more about that.

[silentstriker]

Originally Posted by Spikey

maybe it was just a case of all the old people listening on radio and the young on tv

Haha, beat me to it! That's what I get for instantly replying without reading until the end .

[G.I.Joe]

Originally Posted by Spikey

maybe it was just a case of all the old people listening on radio and the young on tv

Originally Posted by silentstriker

I know about this, and I haven't done any research but those without TVs might be more rural areas, who might perhaps be older and/or rural, which would cause them to lean Republican anyway (though back then there were still significant numbers of southern democrats - until the civil rights act turned them into republicans). Clearly having a partisan lean affects how you view the debates especially if it's close (and often even if it's not).

I wonder if anyone here has heard/read more about that.

The History channel > youse. Jeez, talk about over-analysing.

Also, did you know that aliens built the pyramids?

[silentstriker]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/17/us...bama.html?_r=1

Ugh. Say what you want about McCain but he did reign in some parts of his base somewhat. Still a lot of people not too happy about a black president. This one is going to get real ugly. Remember what Bush did to McCain in South Carolina? Get ready for this one.

[cpr]

A few links on Nixon v Kennedy and the temperature
This one states categorically Kennedy asked for the thermostat to be turned up
(this one just suggests it was a theory)


The other issues in the debate are all true, and wont deny them, but the Kennedy's were sneaky blighters, and would play any advantage. Like resurrecting half of Chicago for polling day

[silentstriker]

Sneaky...as opposed to...Nixon?

I wouldn't put it past them but I don't really believe it. Nixon thought doing makeup or getting a tan was too effeminate so he didn't and suffered for it.

[cpr]

Believe it, the Kennedy's were ruthless as they come. Joe would do anything to get his boys out on top.

[silentstriker]

Again, you're comparing them to NIXON. NIXON FFS.

Also, I'm not saying they wouldn't, I'm saying that I highly doubt they actually did. The political risk is too great for such an unknown benefit (esp. as the medium itself was new in terms of politics).

[Fusion]

Yeah I would highly doubt that the temperature story is true. Debates are controlled by an independent third party and I doubt that the debate administrators would have listened to Kennedy’s people. Also, this was the first televised debate. How could Kennedy have anticipated that Nixon would look that uneasy? Some of the claims in those links like Kennedy had both candidates stand during the debate because he knew Nixon was injured is stretching it. In the overwhelming majority of debates, whether in front of TV or in your local debate team, the participants stand. Same happened to be the case in the Kennedy/Nixon debate.

[G.I.Joe]

From what I've heard, the make-up thing seems most credible.

[cpr]

Originally Posted by silentstriker

Again, you're comparing them to NIXON. NIXON FFS.

Actually, I'm not comparing them to anyone, I'm saying they were dodgy as sin in their own right. Thought it was a given they ran one of the most underhand election campaigns going, and pulled every trick in the book to secure victory. Racketeering in city centres (and the dead rising to vote), discrediting the opponent, pulling swift ones in the media. Big Joe Kennedy basically helped write the book of modern campaigning

Originally Posted by Fusion

Yeah I would highly doubt that the temperature story is true. Debates are controlled by an independent third party and I doubt that the debate administrators would have listened to Kennedy’s people. Also, this was the first televised debate. How could Kennedy have anticipated that Nixon would look that uneasy? Some of the claims in those links like Kennedy had both candidates stand during the debate because he knew Nixon was injured is stretching it. In the overwhelming majority of debates, whether in front of TV or in your local debate team, the participants stand. Same happened to be the case in the Kennedy/Nixon debate.

Nowadays yes, they are controlled by independants, however, this is 1960, and the media don't have the power over the politicians as they do now. If a Kennedy said jump, they asked how high. I suppose its more naivity (and a little behind the scenes with the execs) that allowed the Kennedy campaign to fully exploit the potential of TV.

They were very, very on the ball when it came to image and marketing. They knew Nixon was unwell, they knew he sweated easily. They'd seen him close up on a number of occasions during the McCarthy trials (Joe was a big McCarthyist, Nixon acted on behalf of the Government). As VP, Joe would've been sizing him up as the likely opponant for JFK (he'd been planning a Presidential run since the war, first wanting to use Joe Jr until he was killed fighting, he turned the John, helping get his war memoirs published, used his influence to earn citations - not that JFK didn't deserve them mind).

Personally I think the standing one is a bit of a myth too, indeed its the first I've heard that. Addresses had always been given from the soap box, and whilst this was the first televised debate, I just can't see why they'd think sitting would work.

[silentstriker]

Gallup poll: Romney?s ?favorable? rating jumps