The American Politics thread

[Sanz]

Now that is a damning indictment.

You need to be a real bozo to be a bigger buffoon than Sarah Palin

It is indeed, sad things is Herman Cain seemed a lot more intelligent as the CEO of Godfather Pizza.

Herman Cain versus Bill Clinton.mp4 - YouTube

Very few people could leave President Clinton speechless. He, IMO, did that 15 years ago. I wish he had run his campaign with similar information and preparedness.

[Cevno]

Again, you're the one that claimed there were just as many, if not more, examples for Obama saying absolutely stupid **** like Cain. Cain has been in the spotlight for a few months. Obama has been president for years, plus two years of running a campaign to get elected and so far you found one instance.

I am not justifying anything - I am merely asking you to prove your point about Obama making comments that show he is ignorant of some policy or issue.

And when i did of just 3/4 after searching with difficulty on my phone, you came up with so what and arguments which i don't agree with.
And those were mostly during his campaign IIRC too.

I am not saying Cain doesn't have a lack of knowledge on foreign policy probably. But i am not sure how except the China statement, what you find ignorant on foreign policy issue?
As i said i rather not argue on internal issues, as then with so many democrats here i am not aware on facts on both sides with neutrality.

[Adamc]

Frankly, it's remarkable how few gaffes Obama has made given every word he says in public is documented. The '57 states' thing was pretty clearly a slip of the tongue. He meant to say 47 as he says he has one left to go to, plus Alaska and Hawaii (i.e. 50 in total). It's inconceivable that he didn't actually know how many states there were; if someone had called him out on it right there he would have corrected himself. The reason Perry's slip up was so egregious was precisely because he was given the opportunity to correct himself and he couldn't.

The Cain videos posted in this thread aren't so much gaffes as mounting evidence of his almost wilful ignorance of foreign policy. If it was just a case of him being unable to remember every detail when put on the spot it would still be a bit of a worry (given the job he's applying for) but far less serious.

[Sanz]

I don't care what the Republican's stand on it or Libya is.

Instead of going round in circles and typing posts doing that, just type one that explains what i asked if you indeed have a answer?

How can you not care what the Republican Stand is on Libya and what a Republican Presidential candidate thinks/knows about it and yet want to debate the US presidential election ? If you do not care about it and refuse to watch/read what Mr. Cain said about Libya then I don't believe I can help you.

[Cevno]

Except that's not borne out by reality. As I gave you an example, the mainstream positions of both parties have shifted to the right in the past decade. What used to be classic republican proposals are now advocated by Democratic centrists, and the mainstream Republican party is far to the right of that. The "left" wing of the democratic party is trying to (with little success) hold on to principles that were held by the mainstream democrats not even a decade ago. The shifting of the whole national debate to the right has been well characterized and studied - you can find lots of data on that if you're interested. In fact, there are numerous issues where the Republican party is far to the right of even its own electorate. For example, surveys consistently show that a plurality of even the Republican voters support tax increases on the rich, yet the vast majority of the house and Senate republicans immediately put such ideas off the table and immediately characterize any such proposal as a socialistic redistribution of wealth. The analysis that there must be some sort of 'balance' of left vs. right is simply not correct.

Again this all depends on what you consider left positions and what you consider right positions. Pretty sure Republicans would claim something else. And that is only in terms of economic issues.

As for the "tax on the rich", that is another phrase that what i would consider the left or atleast left on center to use not the right on economic issues. Though, it again depends on the type of tax and connotations you are talking about.

Also it isn't possible that there would be no one in the democratic party advocating even "heavier taxation on the rich", more government control, fixing of prices etc.. again which are not centrist but leftist positions traditionally. In India for example these are what communists advocate the most.

[Cevno]

How can you not care what the Republican Stand is on Libya and what a Republican Presidential candidate thinks/knows about it and yet want to debate the US presidential election ? If you do not care about it and refuse to watch/read what Mr. Cain said about Libya then I don't believe I can help you.

So your problem is that he didn't agree with other Republicans?Is that it?

I have watched the video already twice ffs!! Just tell me what wrong did he say on the policy front especially once he got around his initial confusing gaffe up?

[silentstriker]

Again this all depends on what you consider left positions and what you consider right positions. Pretty sure Republicans would claim something else. And that is only in terms of economic issues.

OK but you keep dodging the data I showed you that clearly showed the positions that were taken up by the right wing are now taken up by the left, and the right wing taking up positions that are even more conservative.

That's the very definition of the whole debate moving more to the right with no counterbalance of left.

[Flem274*]

Cevno all over the show in this thread.

Will post some links to articles on the scary swing to the extreme right currently occurring in the Republican Party.

[Cevno]

Cevno all over the show in this thread.

Will post some links to articles on the scary swing to the extreme right currently occurring in the Republican Party.

Talking about economic/foreign policy issues here, ftr.

And also there is a difference between a general right wing swing and swing to the right or especially extreme right.

[Cevno]

OK but you keep dodging the data I showed you that clearly showed the positions that were taken up by the right wing are now taken up by the left, and the right wing taking up positions that are even more conservative.

Yes, but then you can turn it around and say republicans are moving back to the right on some issues vs there earlier move towards the left or center earlier on some issues. And the Democrats who moved far left are moving back to the center generally on some issues.

Also due to the recession atleast in terms of economic issues generally there has been a lot of movement towards the left too, like Bailouts, more government control over certain sectors, subsidies etc.. on both sides to a different degree which you seem to be forgetting.

[silentstriker]

Yes, but then you can turn it around and say republicans are moving back to the right on some issues vs there earlier move towards the left or center earlier on some issues.

No you can't say that because I am not aware of any such issue where that is the case. I gave you several specific examples - can you give me a few?

Also due to the recession atleast in terms of economic issues generally there has been a lot of movement towards the left too, like Bailouts, more government control over certain sectors, subsidies etc.. on both sides to a different degree which you seem to be forgetting.

Except that bailouts were supported by both parties as an accepted mechanism to not let the financial industry go down - it was a centrist position in US politics. Now it has become a left wing position because the right wing has moved, again, to the right of where it was in just 2008 - when the bailouts were supported by many Republicans and the Republican white house. Right now, the vast majority of them would not support it. You just proved my point with that example.

[Sanz]

. But i am not sure how except the China statement, what you find ignorant on foreign policy issue?.

I don't know where to start, let me try again. Here is his view in slightly more detail so that you can understand, hopefully :-

Israel and Palestine :- Herman Cain on Sean Hannity - 5/23/11 - YouTube (Starts @ 3:00 min mark)

And Please watch it, it is one of the biggest dispute of the world and kind of baffling, insulting to know what a US Presidential front runner has to say about it.

[Flem274*]

A quick search shows Rick Perry would like to reinstate Don't Ask Don't Tell because "it worked very well". Can't have teh gays professing they like penises in the army of course, the good straight boys might get ideas. On the topic of gay marriage, some big supporters of the Republican Party believe not being allowed to persecute gays is persecution.

But it's all right guys, because Herman Cain knows the real issues. Forget Libya; Black democrats are brainwashed. I look forward to an independent inquiry into mind control technology if that man gets in power. Oh look, he didn't even want to run for President but God cracked the whip. God mustn't be on speaking terms with black democrat voters.

Speaking of the whole God thing, Cain says Jesus was the perfect conservative and was murdered by a liberal court.

But I'll stop making fun of their appalling Presidential candidates for a minute, because they're just the lunatic fringe right? The average Republican is a great person. Well Brad Drake is tired of being humane with executions These next guys might not be Republicans, but they do identify as conservative and they repealed the law against domestic violence as part of a budget cut.

It's too bloody easy to find lolworthy material on the Republican Party and U.S. conservativism in general.

[Cevno]

I don't know where to start, let me try again. Here is his view in slightly more detail so that you can understand, hopefully :-

Israel and Palestine :- Herman Cain on Sean Hannity - 5/23/11 - YouTube (Starts @ 3:00 min mark)

And Please watch it, it is one of the biggest dispute of the world and kind of baffling, insulting to know what a US Presidential front runner has to say about it.

Yeah, fair enough that shows lack of knowledge on all major issues. But don't think he said something wrong on policy matters there again? And if you want to debate that on both counts then go ahead and not with the hyperbole trying to sideline the issue.

[silentstriker]

Speaking of the whole God thing, Cain says Jesus was the perfect conservative and was murdered by a liberal court.

He helped the poor without one government program. He healed the sick without a government health care system. He feed the hungry without food stamps.

Clearly if the Romans had a program that fed the the hungry, Jesus would have been out in front protesting such evil government tyranny, just like any other self respecting Conservative.