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Thread: The American Politics thread

  1. #91
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    Haven't gone through the videos but what does he say?

    That Libya video was a stumble and a gaffe for sure and strange the way it came out, but don't think he said something really wrong. You could say it illustrated bad communication skills or just maybe lack of knowledge though.
    You, Sir, are so far the only person in this whole world I know (May be Sean Hanity did as well, I am unaware) who has been able to defend Mr. Cain's response on Libya.

    Here are his thoughts on Domestic Front, Please let me know if it makes any sense.

    Herman Cain on collective Bargaining. Herman Cain on collective bargaining - YouTube

    Herman Cain on abortion. Herman Cain on Abortion - YouTube

    Herman Cain on Immigration/Border - Herman Cain: We Need to Secure the Border With Technology and Guns - YouTube

    He also does not support the fact the children of iilegal aliens are citizens of US yet he does not want to change the 14th amendment.

    Herman Cain on Separation of Church and State - GOP Presidential Candidate Herman Cain " They Have A right to do That..." - YouTube
    Last edited by Sanz; 15-11-2011 at 10:08 PM.

  2. #92
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    You can't say that and not give examples.
    It is tough to search on this, but -

    Obama Speech - Teleprompter Goes Out - YouTube

    Obama Tells The Teleprompter To Speed Up - YouTube

    Can't find on this right now, but there was the calling Americans stupid one too IIRC. Can happen with everyone under constant attention tbh.

  3. #93
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanz View Post
    You, Sir, are so far the only person in this whole world I know (May be Sean Hanity did as well, I am unaware) who has been able to defend Mr. Cain's response on Libya.

    Here are his thoughts on Domestic Front, Please let me know if it makes any sense.

    Herman Cain on collective Bargaining. Herman Cain on collective bargaining - YouTube

    Herman Cain on abortion. Herman Cain on Abortion - YouTube

    Herman Cain on Immigration/Border - Herman Cain: We Need to Secure the Border With Technology and Guns - YouTube

    He also does not support the fact the children of iilegal aliens are citizens of US yet he does not want to change the 14th amendment.

    Herman Cain on Separation of Church and State - GOP Presidential Candidate Herman Cain " They Have A right to do That..." - YouTube
    I'm not fully aware to the details of the U.S Internal issues but view these things later. But exactly what wrong did he say in terms of Libya, especially in Policy terms ?

    And i am no fan of Cain either.

    Edit - Also what is so wrong in the other videos you posted in foreign policy terms?
    Last edited by Cevno; 15-11-2011 at 10:18 PM.

  4. #94
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanz View Post
    It was a joke, pretty clear from the laughter in the audience. I can't believe anyone would consider this as a serious statement.
    Doesn't seem a joke to me and most of his party supporting observes also agreed at the time from what i can read.


  5. #95
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    It is tough to search on this, but -

    Obama Speech - Teleprompter Goes Out - YouTube

    Obama Tells The Teleprompter To Speed Up - YouTube

    Can't find on this right now, but there was the calling Americans stupid one too IIRC. Can happen with everyone under constant attention tbh.
    Wait, because he has a speech written, the implication that he has a lack of knowledge?

    And because he called Americans stupid makes him ignorant....of what exactly? Considering some of the polling data concerning the knowledge of history, civics, current knowledge, I don't think it's a stretch to say that there are swaths of people who are stupid.

    It's pretty hilarious that in response to Cain saying he wants to make sure China doesn't want to get a nuclear weapon...that this is the counterexample of Obama 'messing up'. Proves our point really.
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  6. #96
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    Wait, because he has a speech written, the implication that he has a lack of knowledge?

    And because he called Americans stupid makes him ignorant....of what exactly? Considering some of the polling data concerning the knowledge of history, civics, current knowledge, I don't think it's a stretch to say that there are swaths of people who are stupid.

    It's pretty hilarious that in response to Cain saying he wants to make sure China doesn't want to get a nuclear weapon...that this is the counterexample of Obama 'messing up'. Proves our point really.
    Yeah, America has 60 states. You seem to be justifying one side to any degree and overplaying the mistake of the other to the extreme.

    The last point that proves " our point" clearly shows where your loyalties lie, so no point arguing on the semantics here and pretty sure i can find more examples when i am not on my phone.And it is somewhat understandable with so much attention too.

    And also i have really no stake in the American election directly, just saying what i feel as a neutral from the outside tbh.
    Last edited by Cevno; 15-11-2011 at 10:27 PM.

  7. #97
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    But exactly what wrong did he say in terms of Libya, especially in Policy terms ?
    Did you really watch the video ? I mean seriously I am unable to understand the motive behind the above question. Did you watch the video on Libya ? Are you in for a serious discussion or just want to waste others' time ?

  8. #98
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanz View Post
    Did you really watch the video ? I mean seriously I am unable to understand the motive behind the above question. Did you watch the video on Libya ? Are you in for a serious discussion or just want to waste others' time ?
    Just answer the question i asked please, if you really have a reply instead of hyperbole?

    Thank you.

  9. #99
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    Yeah, America has 60 states. You seem to be justifying one side to any degree and overplaying the mistake of the other to the extreme.
    Again, you're the one that claimed there were just as many, if not more, examples for Obama saying absolutely stupid **** like Cain. Cain has been in the spotlight for a few months. Obama has been president for years, plus two years of running a campaign to get elected and so far you found one instance.

    I am not justifying anything - I am merely asking you to prove your point about Obama making comments that show he is ignorant of some policy or issue.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanz View Post
    The guy is a bigger buffoon than Sarah Palin.
    Now that is a damning indictment.

    You need to be a real bozo to be a bigger buffoon than Sarah Palin

  11. #101
    Hall of Fame Member _Ed_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    Now that is a damning indictment.

    You need to be a real bozo to be a bigger buffoon than Sarah Palin
    I didn't think it was possible, but yeah, Cain goes amazingly close.

  12. #102
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    Just answer the question i asked please, if you really have a reply instead of hyperbole?

    Thank you.
    If you want to participate in a debate or discussion, you need to do your part.

    You need to watch the video first before asking any question and if, after watching the video, you still have question, you need to do your own reading and research to understand what is so wrong with his comments that even the hard line Republicans are finding it hard to defend.

  13. #103
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    There is no 'left wing' party in the US.
    I meant in U.S terms.

    What i leftist in economic policies for say India would probably be fringe elements in the U.S or in the democratic party and the communist almost extinct.
    And in economic terms the definition of right wing is a lot different too.

    In terms of non financial issues again the split may be different to the economic issues and one may have a so called right wing position on one and left wing on one. And if there are fringe elements in the Republican party going really right on one issue or the other, then there must be really left elements in terms of economic policies and others in the democratic party.

    In a 2 party kind of system, those views have to be accommodated at the end, even if they have 10% support. Hard to hold that against others in the same party because they share the same party with these people is what i meant.

  14. #104
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanz View Post
    If you want to participate in a debate or discussion, you need to do your part.

    You need to watch the video first before asking any question and if, after watching the video, you still have question, you need to do your own reading and research to understand what is so wrong with his comments that even the hard line Republicans are finding it hard to defend.
    I don't care what the Republican's stand on it or Libya is.

    Instead of going round in circles and typing posts doing that, just type one that explains what i asked if you indeed have a answer?

  15. #105
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    And if there are fringe elements in the Republican party going really right on one issue or the other, then there must be really left elements in terms of economic policies and others in the democratic party.
    Except that's not borne out by reality. As I gave you an example, the mainstream positions of both parties have shifted to the right in the past decade. What used to be classic republican proposals are now advocated by Democratic centrists, and the mainstream Republican party is far to the right of that. The "left" wing of the democratic party is trying to (with little success) hold on to principles that were held by the mainstream democrats not even a decade ago. The shifting of the whole national debate to the right has been well characterized and studied - you can find lots of data on that if you're interested. In fact, there are numerous issues where the Republican party is far to the right of even its own electorate. For example, surveys consistently show that a plurality of even the Republican voters support tax increases on the rich, yet the vast majority of the house and Senate republicans immediately put such ideas off the table and immediately characterize any such proposal as a socialistic redistribution of wealth. The analysis that there must be some sort of 'balance' of left vs. right is simply not correct.

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