The American Politics thread

[Quaggas]

Originally Posted by Sanz

Majority is what counts. And I do not have a problem with Huntsman and Romney and for that matter even Huckabee but I don't think they will be able to win the Republican Nomination.

Romney will win, imo, but I doubt he'll be able to defeat Obama, despite the economic situation (which gets blamed on the incumbent, fairly or not).

[smalishah84]

Originally Posted by Cevno

Don't think imposing those kind of values is actually possible to the extreme as is often suggested in a country like USA, especially in this day and age. The right doesn't have to be extreme right always, tbf and though the left by invoking the fear of the extreme right, stands to gain but has to be also careful about How left of the center they want to be.

Also is harsh to paint all the politicians of a party with the same brush in a kind of 2 party system USA has.

This

[silentstriker]

Originally Posted by Cevno

Don't think imposing those kind of values is actually possible to the extreme as is often suggested in a country like USA, especially in this day and age. The right doesn't have to be extreme right always, tbf and though the left by invoking the fear of the extreme right, stands to gain but has to be also careful about How left of the center they want to be.

Also is harsh to paint all the politicians of a party with the same brush in a kind of 2 party system USA has.

There is no 'left wing' party in the US. There is an extreme right wing party and there is a centrist party. The current policies of the democrats were the policies that the Republicans took in the 1990s. For example: individual mandate for private insurance...Newt Gingrich and Heritage Foundation came up with that. Cap & Trade: Cornerstone of early republican response to democrats wanting tougher regulations. Both of those things are now mainstream democratic proposals and are roundly opposed as Republicans! They call that as government going too far and way too liberal - even though they proposed them not too long ago! The Republican party has moved massively to the right, and the Democrats have moved to the right of center. The current healthcare law was rejected by the Clinton administration in the 1990s as being way too conservative - they thought the individual mandate was stupid because it gave the insurance companies money instead of having a government run program. Now Democrats are pushing for a mandate to buy private insurance and the Republcans start clapping when Ron Paul talks about letting people die instead and starts booing a soldier serving in Iraq because he is gay. You have a presidential candidate talking about how HPV vaccine caused mental retardation, and the birther movement and global warming crazies coming up with one ridiculous theory after another. The one guy who is actually pro-science, believes in global warming and doesn't buy the birther crap is polling in at 2%.

It has been an astonishing shift to radical right wing positions in a very short amount of time, and the characterization of 'extreme' is quite accurate.

[Agent Nationaux]

Originally Posted by Fusion

Because that goes against the concept and values of what the United States stands for. What the Republicans promote is revisionist history of a state deeply rooted in religious values and intolerant of dissenting voices. What they desire is a puritan society which is frankly at conflict with the Constitution. I strongly believe that the greatness of this country derives from two of the most brilliantly written documents in human history - The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of the United States. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Those words were not just written for effect, they meant something and established the foundation of this country.

Of course, the implementation of that concept has never been fully accomplished. From slavery to discrimination against gender and sexual orientation, the United States has gone through extreme dark periods. But the country never claimed to be perfect - it just wanted to pursue a "more perfect Union". That's why the Bill of Rights were included in the US Constitution. Whether the Republicans like it or not, human ideas and our sense of right and wrong evolves. The Constitution is brilliant because it grants general human rights, and that has allowed the people of this country to painstakingly over time acknowledge the rights of the minorities and the oppressed. It has been a long and hard battle for a more perfect (and to me a more progressive) union. If it were up to the Republicans, all of that struggle would be for naught and the ideals of the Constitution would be discarded. This is why it's important for Barack Obama, as flawed as he might be, to win the next election. You can accuse me of dramatics, but it is a fight for the very soul of this country.

Top post Fusion, and very nicely put. Even though I am not an American, I have always believed that the Constitution of the United States and especially the Bill of rights is one of the greatest documents to have ever been written in recent history and is an example for the world to follow.

[Agent Nationaux]

Originally Posted by silentstriker

There is no 'left wing' party in the US. There is an extreme right wing party and there is a centrist party. The current policies of the democrats were the policies that the Republicans took in the 1990s. For example: individual mandate for private insurance...Newt Gingrich and Heritage Foundation came up with that. Cap & Trade: Cornerstone of early republican response to democrats wanting tougher regulations. Both of those things are now mainstream democratic proposals and are roundly opposed as Republicans! They call that as government going too far and way too liberal - even though they proposed them not too long ago! The Republican party has moved massively to the right, and the Democrats have moved to the right of center. The current healthcare law was rejected by the Clinton administration in the 1990s as being way too conservative - they thought the individual mandate was stupid because it gave the insurance companies money instead of having a government run program. Now Democrats are pushing for a mandate to buy private insurance and the Republcans start clapping when Ron Paul talks about letting people die instead and starts booing a soldier serving in Iraq because he is gay. You have a presidential candidate talking about how HPV vaccine caused mental retardation, and the birther movement and global warming crazies coming up with one ridiculous theory after another. The one guy who is actually pro-science, believes in global warming and doesn't buy the birther crap is polling in at 2%.

It has been an astonishing shift to radical right wing positions in a very short amount of time, and the characterization of 'extreme' is quite accurate.

Lol, didn't know things were that crazy in the US.

[Flem274*]

Originally Posted by silentstriker

There is no 'left wing' party in the US. There is an extreme right wing party and there is a centrist party. The current policies of the democrats were the policies that the Republicans took in the 1990s. For example: individual mandate for private insurance...Newt Gingrich and Heritage Foundation came up with that. Cap & Trade: Cornerstone of early republican response to democrats wanting tougher regulations. Both of those things are now mainstream democratic proposals and are roundly opposed as Republicans! They call that as government going too far and way too liberal - even though they proposed them not too long ago! The Republican party has moved massively to the right, and the Democrats have moved to the right of center. The current healthcare law was rejected by the Clinton administration in the 1990s as being way too conservative - they thought the individual mandate was stupid because it gave the insurance companies money instead of having a government run program. Now Democrats are pushing for a mandate to buy private insurance and the Republcans start clapping when Ron Paul talks about letting people die instead and starts booing a soldier serving in Iraq because he is gay. You have a presidential candidate talking about how HPV vaccine caused mental retardation, and the birther movement and global warming crazies coming up with one ridiculous theory after another. The one guy who is actually pro-science, believes in global warming and doesn't buy the birther crap is polling in at 2%.

It has been an astonishing shift to radical right wing positions in a very short amount of time, and the characterization of 'extreme' is quite accurate.

Damn straight.

Creationism is still taught as "science" in American schools ffs, or at least the Republicans want it to be. It's insane.

The bill to ban abortion in all circumstances (in other words, the worthless woman dies with the baby if birth is life threatening) sums up the hopeless ****s for me. Top family values right there. Perhaps if they stopped drawing their values from the Leviticus section of their book written during the Iron Age Glaciation I'll take them seriously as human beings.

[smalishah84]

[Sanz]

Herman Cain The Foreign Policy Expert :- Herman Cain has New Ideas to Tame Iran! Dick Morris TV: Lunch ALERT! - YouTube

Libya - Has already been said earlier in the thread

Uzbekistan - Herman Cain on foreign policy - YouTube

China - Herman Cain: China Are "Trying" To Develop Nuclear Capability - YouTube

Iran - Herman Cain - On Iran i wouldn't waste my time Singing' kumbaya my lord - YouTube

Israel (and Iran again) - "Peace through strength AND clarity" Herman Cain on Israel, foreign policy and strategy towards Iran - YouTube

Pakistan - Herman Cain on The Pakistan Strategy - CBS News & National Journal GOP Debate - YouTube

Afghanistan - Herman Cain comments on Afganistan War - YouTube

Palestine - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XApNw7ToJ04


What a moron.

[Sanz]

The guy is a bigger buffoon than Sarah Palin.

[Cevno]

Tbf, you can find as many if not more goof ups about Obama too -

Just one for example -

Obama Thinks There Are 57 states - And He Even Stopped To - YouTube

[silentstriker]

Originally Posted by Cevno

Tbf, you can find as many if not more goof ups about Obama too -

Just one for example -

Obama Thinks There Are 57 states - And He Even Stopped To - YouTube

So where are the others?

[Sanz]

Originally Posted by Cevno

Tbf, you can find as many if not more goof ups about Obama too -

Just one for example -

Obama Thinks There Are 57 states - And He Even Stopped To - YouTube

It was a joke, pretty clear from the laughter in the audience. I can't believe anyone would consider this as a serious statement.

The above, even if taken seriously, can be at best considered as gaffe, a mistake on his part but Cain's statements on foreign policy (or lack of it) are actual Foreign Policies that we may see if he becomes president and as a citizen of the world I find it very disturbing and scary.

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by silentstriker

So where are the others?

Pretty sure there was a 10 minute video or something of gaffe's and strange comments. On my phone right now and cbf'd searching on it with this interface.

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by Sanz

The above, even if taken seriously, can be at best considered as gaffe, a mistake on his part but Cain's statements on foreign policy (or lack of it) are actual Foreign Policies that we may see if he becomes president and as a citizen of the world I find it very disturbing and scary.

Haven't gone through the videos but what does he say?

That Libya video was a stumble and a gaffe for sure and strange the way it came out, but don't think he said something really wrong. You could say it illustrated bad communication skills or lack of knowledge though. And lack of knowledge seems something common throughout the field inlcuding Obama.

[silentstriker]

Originally Posted by Cevno

Haven't gone through the videos but what does he say?

That Libya video was a stumble and a gaffe for sure and strange the way it came out, but don't think he said something really wrong. You could say it illustrated bad communication skills or lack of knowledge though. And lack of knowledge seems something common throughout the field inlcuding Obama.

You can't say that and not give examples.