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Thread: The American Politics thread

  1. #3211
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Agree in principle but what incentive could they have for actually picking a side? The public is so divided on whether Snowden's a hero or traitor, why fan the flames of something which could bite them on the arse/be used later? That and traditionally there's been a tension sitting government and their intel services, so easy to throw them under a bus if an attack happens but need to be almost fearful of them in times of peace. If it's anything like here, I'm guessing Obama wants to keep his distance and avoid pissing them off.
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  2. #3212
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    The Obama administration is so annoying on this NSA issue. Pick a side to be on - to say that you 'want a debate' is such a disingenous thing to say because 1) there wouldn't be a debate without the leak you oppose, and 2) how can you possibly debate if the government has gone too far if you don't know how far the government has gone?
    Well it's not contradictory to say you'd like the leak to lead to a debate even if you think the leak overall was a bad thing. The second point is sort of true, but it also reflects the state of public opinion. When you tell people that:

    -You need surveilance powers over them for their own protection against terrorism
    -For their own safety they can't even know what those powers are,

    they'll sometimes accept it, and post 9/11 a lot of Americans did. This stifles future debate, of course. And that's what Obama is saying he'd like to address.
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  3. #3213
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    What incentive? I don't know - because he ran on civil liberties before? I'm not saying it's surprising, but I'm not particularly excited to go vote democrat in the next elections now.
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  4. #3214
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Well it's not contradictory to say you'd like the leak to lead to a debate even if you think the leak overall was a bad thing. The second point is sort of true, but it also reflects the state of public opinion. When you tell people that:

    -You need surveilance powers over them for their own protection against terrorism
    -For their own safety they can't even know what those powers are,

    they'll sometimes accept it, and post 9/11 a lot of Americans did. This stifles future debate, of course, which is what Obama is saying he'd like to address.
    I dare him to come out and make that argument. I'd respect the hell out of him. And then I'd support impeaching him.


  5. #3215
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    What incentive? I don't know - because he ran on civil liberties before? I'm not saying it's surprising, but I'm not particularly excited to go vote democrat in the next elections now.
    So don't vote for the ****s.

  6. #3216
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    I probably won't in 2014. I might change my registration to democrat and vote for the pro-civil liberties candidate in the primary and then I'll have to decide for the actual election. I believe you should absolutely always vote in elections, so I'll have to make a choice of who to vote for then. If both candidates are anti civil liberties, I'll vote Republican out of spite. I hate voting third parties and very often there are only two choices for midterm elections anyway.

    And I guess my donations to campaigns will have to stop and go instead to ACLU and other organizations.
    Last edited by silentstriker; 10-08-2013 at 06:44 AM.

  7. #3217
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Obama Proposes FISA Reforms Amid Growing Concerns Over NSA Surveillance

    It's sort of a start. The judges should not be appointed by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court - they should be appointed by Congress. All opinions that relate to the actual power of government agencies should be made public, with redactions only when it deals with specific techniques or cases. Obviously all of this should be open to appeal to the Supreme Court by any concerned citizen.

    Or FFS, just don't reauthorize the patriot act.

    Oh, and while you're at it, get rid of Homeland Security, NSA and the DEA. There's your three departments Rick Perry.

  8. #3218
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    maybe you should vote for someone who supports reforming your abysmal political system
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  9. #3219
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Nah. It doesn't really need major reforms.

  10. #3220
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    Nah. It doesn't really need major reforms.
    Do you really think not?

  11. #3221
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Need some of course, but nothing really fundamental. As much as I disagree with the outcomes sometimes, - it represents the will of the people relatively well most of the time.

  12. #3222
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    What other political systems do you think it compares well to?

  13. #3223
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    Well I prefer it to most of the European democracies. There are aspects of those that I'd like to incorporate of course, but overall if I couldn't pick and choose individual parts and had to import a whole system without any changes, I'd probably still pick the US system.

    For example: having a written constitution is something I would never ever want to give up. Nor would I give up having something like a Supreme Court rather than a congress or parliament be the final 'keeper' of that constitution. I also like the staggered elections we have every two years - allows for both continuity while still allowing for fast shifts in public opinion to be reflected in our legislature. I'd change some things like how districts are drawn, I'd repeal the 17th amendment, but get rid of the filibuster rules. I'd make the presidency a direct election. And of course many other things. But if you're asking on balance....I still prefer this system, as chaotic and tumultuous as it may be sometimes.
    Last edited by silentstriker; 11-08-2013 at 11:16 AM.

  14. #3224
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    Well I prefer it to most of the European democracies.

    For example: having a written constitution is something I would never ever want to give up.
    A feature of every European democracy save the UK, I think.
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  15. #3225
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    i think he means bill of rights



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