The American Politics thread

[Spikey]

vote on Sandy aid delayed or something. gonna blame Cantor for this #dummyspit

[Spark]

Well the problem with everyone's taxes going up is that everyone's taxes go up.

I really, really can't empathise with complaining about brinkmanship - then advocating brinkmanship when you don't agree with it! Well, no. It doesn't work like that.

[Redbacks]

What's the date for the next artificially created crisis going to be I wonder?

[Spikey]

if you don't like democracy you can go back to canada

[Fusion]

Originally Posted by Spark

Well the problem with everyone's taxes going up is that everyone's taxes go up.

I really, really can't empathise with complaining about brinkmanship - then advocating brinkmanship when you don't agree with it! Well, no. It doesn't work like that.

Ok, so the taxes go up to Clinton era levels. That's not the end of the world in my book. The economy prospered under those tax levels. Of course it will hurt the middle class (of which I'm a part of) in the short run. But the taxes going up, along with the automatic spending cuts, would've helped the economy in the long run. It wouldn't have been the ideal solution, but it was a better solution than this "compromise".

[silentstriker]

This is all smallball. Either we need to cut Medicare, Medicaid and defense significantly or we need to institute a national VAT to pay for it. There is no other way short of bankruptcy a decade or two down the line.

[Spark]

Originally Posted by Fusion

Ok, so the taxes go up to Clinton era levels. That's not the end of the world in my book. The economy prospered under those tax levels. Of course it will hurt the middle class (of which I'm a part of) in the short run. But the taxes going up, along with the automatic spending cuts, would've helped the economy in the long run. It wouldn't have been the ideal solution, but it was a better solution than this "compromise".

You're kidding, right?

Have a look at Europe and see what austerity has done there and then come back before advocating a more extreme austerity package than anything Europe has come up with. The first imperative of any economic policy is to not be Europe, whatever ideology you come from.

[Fusion]

Originally Posted by Spark

You're kidding, right?

Have a look at Europe and see what austerity has done there and then come back before advocating a more extreme austerity package than anything Europe has come up with. The first imperative of any economic policy is to not be Europe, whatever ideology you come from.

Except we're not talking European levels at all. FAR from it. The Clinton era tax levels weren't back breaking. Some would say for an economy of this size, they were ideal. In addition, we need spending cuts. With sequestering, half of those spending cuts would've come from defense. You know what? I think the US can do without 500 less tanks and still blow away any other country that dares to mess with it. I don't see how you can compare this to austerity at all.

[Top_Cat]

Originally Posted by silentstriker

This is all smallball. Either we need to cut Medicare, Medicaid and defense significantly or we need to institute a national VAT to pay for it. There is no other way short of bankruptcy a decade or two down the line.

[silentstriker]

Originally Posted by Top_Cat

I agree but not nearly enough by itself.

[SirBloody Idiot]

Originally Posted by Spikey

vote on Sandy aid delayed or something. gonna blame Cantor for this #dummyspit

You rang?

[Spikey]

THE KEY PLAYERS



hmmmmmm

[silentstriker]

The fiscal cliff deal that almost wasn't - John Bresnahan and Carrie Budoff Brown and Manu Raju and Jake Sherman - POLITICO.com

[Fusion]

There are some great articles on Politico that cover the subject, including this:

Why Obama, McConnell took the deal

The article demonstrates my deep frustrations with this deal. Obama is under a false impression of having some type of “leverage” whereas it’s the Republicans that hold all the leverage now. In the upcoming fight over the debt ceiling and sequestering, they will demand deep spending cuts from entitlements and possibly even demand tax cuts. With no fiscal cliff threat, Obama will have no choice but to cave.

[silentstriker]

He won't. He's got the pulpit - hammer them over not paying the bills if they don't. And truthfully, he needs to come with a proposal to balance the budget rationally too. I'm all for higher revenue but no plan by either party really does anything. Even the 'grand bargain' would have barely made a dent.