The American Politics thread

[Spark]

Originally Posted by _Ed_

I haven't heard of that website. What credentials does 'drhoosierdem' have?

Daily Kos is a left-wing "super-blog", basically.

Look, there's no doubt that Obama is left of the American political centre, which is why he's the left's candidate and why they'll do their best to try and show off his left-wing credentials to preserve their own intellectual integrity. I don't have an issue with that.

But let's call spades spades here. In a general, standard-definition context, he's most definitely not left of centre.

This reminds me why I found label debates so boring all those years ago

[Burgey]

Originally Posted by Spark

Daily Kos is a left-wing "super-blog", basically.

Look, there's no doubt that Obama is left of the American political centre, which is why he's the left's candidate and why they'll do their best to try and show off his left-wing credentials to preserve their own intellectual integrity. I don't have an issue with that.

But let's call spades spades here. In a general, standard-definition context, he's most definitely not left of centre.

This reminds me why I found label debates so boring all those years ago

There is no mainstream "left" in American politics ffs.

[Spark]

Basically. In fact the "left" has more or less disappeared from mainstream political discourse in the last few decades. Partially this is good - protectionism is an idea whose death is long overdue - partially not.

You just look at how substantially different (and at times downright alarming) the policies of the Greens - who represent a fully-blown "left" party - here are from the ALP/LNP (whose general philosophy are actually quite close nowadays) to see that in effect.

[Samuel_Vimes]

List of countries by inequality-adjusted HDI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course in America this would be dismissed as socialist, United Nations propaganda.

[Spark]

TBF I don't think it's entirely fair to compare deeply inhomogeneous and very large countries such as the US (which is really in a class of its own in that regards) to much smaller, more homogeneous (culturally, geographically etc - the works) countries such as Aus, Norway et al. Not without serious caveats, at least.

[Samuel_Vimes]

Originally Posted by Spark

TBF I don't think it's entirely fair to compare deeply inhomogeneous and very large countries such as the US (which is really in a class of its own in that regards) to much smaller, more homogeneous (culturally, geographically etc - the works) countries such as Aus, Norway et al. Not without serious caveats, at least.

Western Europe as a whole is also deeply inhomogenous and pretty large. The average would still be above US (eyeballing it, about on France level).

[Spark]

Not US level of inhomogeneity. They really are in a league of their own.

BTW this bloke gives by far the most succint, objective reporting of facts and whatnot relating to US politics that I've seen.

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by Spark

Basically. In fact the "left" has more or less disappeared from mainstream political discourse in the last few decades. Partially this is good - protectionism is an idea whose death is long overdue - partially not.

You just look at how substantially different (and at times downright alarming) the policies of the Greens - who represent a fully-blown "left" party - here are from the ALP/LNP (whose general philosophy are actually quite close nowadays) to see that in effect.

Not aware of Australian politics but would that be down to the other parties being to the extreme right or Green being to the extreme left?

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by Spark

Not US level of inhomogeneity. They really are in a league of their own.

No they aren't tbf.

Amongst the top countries they are though, i guess.

[Spark]

A mixture of both. The Greens do have some positions which are waaaaay different from mainstream. Some of them are genuinely waaaaaaay out there but some of them are simply because mainstream political discourse doesn't include what used to be big portions of the "left", especially the genuine economic left which has been more or less discredited as a mainstream political theory for about two decades.

That the ALP/LNP are on either side of a political centre which is "slightly to the right" isn't very difficult to see. I would put the ALP as a centrist, maybe slightly centre-right party, LNP a bit more right (although Abbott's populism is making it extremely difficult to work out what they actually advocate in terms of a coherent philosophy... but wrong thread)

[Spikey]

Originally Posted by Spark

Basically. In fact the "left" has more or less disappeared from mainstream political discourse in the last few decades. Partially this is good - protectionism is an idea whose death is long overdue - partially not.

You just look at how substantially different (and at times downright alarming) the policies of the Greens - who represent a fully-blown "left" party - here are from the ALP/LNP (whose general philosophy are actually quite close nowadays) to see that in effect.

well every party on either side usually has bat **** insane ideas. protectionism won't ever go away though.could maybe swap around eg the left party trying to abolish it the right keeping it. you know the nationalist dey tok our jerbs sorta thing.

[Spark]

That's generally why you ignore the outliers and the more "wtf?" policies/moments/people and just focus on the core platform.

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by Spark

A mixture of both. The Greens do have some positions which are waaaaay different from mainstream. Some of them are genuinely waaaaaaay out there but some of them are simply because mainstream political discourse doesn't include what used to be big portions of the "left", especially the genuine economic left which has been more or less discredited as a mainstream political theory for about two decades.

That the ALP/LNP are on either side of a political centre which is "slightly to the right" isn't very difficult to see. I would put the ALP as a centrist, maybe slightly centre-right party, LNP a bit more right (although Abbott's populism is making it extremely difficult to work out what they actually advocate in terms of a coherent philosophy... but wrong thread)

Was wondering because Political compass showed most of them far to the right and Greens just left of center -

Australian Election 2010

Have read about the greens a bit and some of the policies seem strange, even from populism standards.

[Quaggas]

On the campaign trail.

Lol "The notion that we fear China is mistaken."

[Spark]

@cevno: That is basically accurate, and how I'd have characterised them myself.

But a lot can change in a year.

off track, though.