The American Politics thread

[silentstriker]

Originally Posted by Cevno

You have every right to not vote for anyone if you don't agree with their policies on some issues which are contentious in many aspects, just not religious. I agree you on Gay marriage too, but it can't become the only issue.

That was in reference to calling him deluded and then taking a moral high ground that i am pro choice.

....I never mentioned abortion.....

Yes, I consider him deluded if he thinks he is hearing the voice of someone telling him to run for Presidency. Cause Perry heard it too. Obviously unless God just wants to see the gaffe highlight reel by pitting them against each other, logically speaking, at a minimum, one of them, by definition, is deluded. As for it becoming the only issue - the two major issues I have are LGBT rights (I feel it's a civil rights issue and thus one of the most important issues of our generation), and health care issue (which affects hundreds of millions of people). So yea, I have no problem with those issues coming to the fore.

Secondly, me making a comment on his mental state does not say anything about me forcing my choice on him? What choice am I forcing him to make? How am I forcing him to live his life any differently?

You keep throwing accusations and making statements without giving any specifics. And again, I ask you, what policy that do I support that would constitute me forcing my beliefs on how he (or someone else) lives?

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by Flem274*

Gay marriage, evolution aka history, and the rights of women to make decisions about their own bodies.

The first two are embedded in religion and many of the people opposed to the third are also religious.

I am secular. They have every right to believe in a personal God, but if they want to legislate based on supposed truths written by people who supposedly talked to God several thousand years ago, and then had those truths edited by later people, they can take a hike.

Agree on gay rights and the right of abortion upto a certain period of time with you(as another life is also associated who can't decide for itself.) History will always be contentious though.

As for Legislating based on anything. Everyone has a right to legislate based on anything they want as long as they don't violate basic constitutional/human rights for every citizen AFAIC. And it doesn't matter in that regard whether they believe in the religion or not personally. Many old mythological quotes are used while legislating progressive things too around the world.

[Spikey]

Originally Posted by Cevno

Romney ought to be the favorite?

Also the majority of the politicians are close to the center on many issues, i would have thought on both sides in USA right now?

[Spikey]

Originally Posted by Cevno

Tbf, you can find as many if not more goof ups about Obama too -

Just one for example -

Obama Thinks There Are 57 states - And He Even Stopped To - YouTube

[Cevno]

I guess the definition of what constitutes left and right differs from country to country and on economic or non - economic issues.

From a South Asian context it is completely different on non economic issues.

[Spikey]

well duh. but in america there's been a huge shift to the right. the frickin tea party is all that needs to be mentioned.

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by Spikey

well duh. but in america there's been a huge shift to the right. the frickin tea party is all that needs to be mentioned.

Depends whether you are talking about Non economic or economic issues and again what you consider to be right wing or left wing.

Generally find myself agreeing more with the democrats on non economic issues, And Republicans more on Economic and Foreign policy issues.

[Quaggas]

Hold up guys.... looking for the popcorn!

[Quaggas]

Originally Posted by Spikey

Hotelling's law. But I'd agree that Obama's where many Republicans were (on some issues) 5 years ago, and the Republicans have been hijacked by the (looney) Teapotters.

[Adamc]

Originally Posted by Quaggas

Hotelling's law. But I'd agree that Obama's where many Republicans were (on some issues) 5 years ago, and the Republicans have been hijacked by the (looney) Teapotters.

Hotelling's law doesn't apply to US politics that much as voting isn't compulsory. Candidates can do well by appealing to those most likely to vote (seniors, if The Simpsons is to be believed) rather than the voting age population as a whole. In comparison the major parties in Australia (where compulsory voting is enforced) have relatively much more similar political positions.

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by silentstriker

You keep throwing accusations and making statements without giving any specifics.

Again i threw know accusations at you about you advocating policies(though i can have a debate on some contentious policies too, but rather not here) but was talking about laughing at his beliefs and calling him deluded and about it being anyone's business etc..

As for specifics when i give them you choose to ignore them, sideline them or change the debate into something else to what i am trying to say. In any case rather than going on with this, have to agree to disagree.

Have to say would love to hear the views of someone from the other side of the fence in America here too with more facts, with all being of similar views in terms of political allegiance right now from what i can gather.

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by Quaggas

Hotelling's law. But I'd agree that Obama's where many Republicans were (on some issues) 5 years ago, and the Republicans have been hijacked by the (looney) Teapotters.

Yeah, there has been a shift towards the right on some issues.

But then those closer to the center like Romney are more likely to win as per the polls against Obama who has moved away from the left too, than someone else more to the right. From what my definition of right and left is most of the mainstream public and politics opinion is still close to the center than the right or left for sure.

[Spark]

What is your definition of left and right? By standard polisci definitions the US political centre is definitely well to the right.

[Flem274*]

Spark said it.

[Cevno]

Originally Posted by Spark

What is your definition of left and right? By standard polisci definitions the US political centre is definitely well to the right.

In terms of economics extreme left is communism , if you discount the lunatic/violent fringes.

In U.S that kind of left wing sentiment does not exist, i guess. So in those terms you are right that their center has been towards the right for a large duration now and thus it being almost the most free market country the definition of left would be more right than the normal than most other countries, i guess.

In terms of non economic issues though, i don't think their political centre is towards the right though. Many worst examples of extreme right wing around the world. I still feel on those terms their politics may have moved towards the right in recent times, but still the general public opinion is closer to center than right or left. Though those issues most of the time tend to be portrayed as Black and White most times, which i don't believe is the case.

In short Obama is just about left of center and Romney right of center in american terms for me.