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Thread: Anti semitism question

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    International Captain cover drive man's Avatar
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    Anti semitism question

    It seems throughout history jews have been bullied and abused peeking with the holocaust, but why have the jews been hated for thousands of years? There must be a reason.
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    Read the Torah- it's really quite obvious when you do.
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    International Captain cover drive man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Read the Torah- it's really quite obvious when you do.
    Why, what does it say?

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    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cover drive man View Post
    Why, what does it say?
    It says a lot of things- what offends most people is that it places Jews on a pedestal, considering them God's chosen people by birth. (Some would say that it doesn't really mean that. But that's irrelevant- the point is that a lot of people feel like it means that.)

    It doesn't make Anti-Semitism reasonable by any means, but when you look through the book, you can see the origins of it. When you look through the Koran, anti-Islamic feelings amongst Westerners make a lot more sense too. Not that it makes them fair, but it helps understand why they're there if you know what I mean.

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    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero View Post
    "In the year 2006 pasag will register for Cricket Web."

    'nuff said
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    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Read the Torah- it's really quite obvious when you do.
    Nah, I don't buy that. The vast majority of antisemites wouldn't have a clue what's in the Torah. I don't think antisemitism, as a prejudice, is qualitatively different from any other. It's probably more ancient because Jews (the Ashkenazi anyway) have been living amongst a white Christian majority longer than other minority groups, but it's essentially the age old fear of the strangers who walk amongst us.
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    Cricketer Of The Year Manee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Nah, I don't buy that. The vast majority of antisemites wouldn't have a clue what's in the Torah. I don't think antisemitism, as a prejudice, is qualitatively different from any other. It's probably more ancient because Jews (the Ashkenazi anyway) have been living amongst a white Christian majority longer than other minority groups, but it's essentially the age old fear of the strangers who walk amongst us.
    Would agree with that as well as the prejudice against the stereotypically successful shrewd, tight businessmen from people like Marx (half Jewish himself). Hitler's anti-semitism was an extension from what is said above - he was upset that they were treated as Germans more readily than he, as an Austrian was, in the army, and elsewhere, if my history is correct.
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Nah, I don't buy that. The vast majority of antisemites wouldn't have a clue what's in the Torah. I don't think antisemitism, as a prejudice, is qualitatively different from any other. It's probably more ancient because Jews (the Ashkenazi anyway) have been living amongst a white Christian majority longer than other minority groups, but it's essentially the age old fear of the strangers who walk amongst us.
    May well be completely right- but if you're looking for origins, the Torah's a good place to start.

    There's also the labelling of Jews as the killers of Jesus, of course.

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    Cricketer Of The Year Manee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    There's also the labelling of Jews as the killers of Jesus, of course.
    Jewsus

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    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manee View Post
    Would agree with that as well as the prejudice against the stereotypically successful shrewd, tight businessmen from people like Marx (half Jewish himself). Hitler's anti-semitism was an extension from what is said above - he was upset that they were treated as Germans more readily than he, as an Austrian was, in the army, and elsewhere, if my history is correct.
    The stereotype of the "grasping Jew" is probably a case of prejudice informing prejudice. Jewish people were barred from most professions, but usury was one of the few open to them. The Jews turned to money lending out of necessity and a prejorative archetype was born.

    You mentioning Marx raises a crucial point tho; although the grandson of rabbis, Marx himself was raised as an evangelical Christian. Yet the more rabid of the the far right still defame communism as a "Jewish plot". As Marx wasn't a Jew by religion, such antisemitism seems to be as much of a racial as a religious prejudice.

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    Cricketer Of The Year Manee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    The stereotype of the "grasping Jew" is probably a case of prejudice informing prejudice. Jewish people were barred from most professions, but usury was one of the few open to them. The Jews turned to money lending out of necessity and a prejorative archetype was born.
    I never justified the prejudice, myself. However, thanks for the information, pretty interesting. Out of interest, who barred the Jews from most professions or is it a scriptural thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    You mentioning Marx raises a crucial point tho; although the grandson of rabbis, Marx himself was raised as an evangelical Christian. Yet the more rabid of the the far right still defame communism as a "Jewish plot". As Marx wasn't a Jew by religion, such antisemitism seems to be as much of a racial as a religious prejudice.
    Yes, read that Hitler was convinced that Communism was a Jewish plot and so opposed it, even though he was socialist in many of his policies. But I guess that could also be linked back to the difference between National Socialism and international socialism.

    Did you read politics at uni, by any chance?

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    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manee View Post
    I never justified the prejudice, myself. However, thanks for the information, pretty interesting. Out of interest, who barred the Jews from most professions or is it a scriptural thing?
    I think most of western Europe barred Jews from most trades or professions until relatively recently. Citizenship and voting rights were only accorded in the nineteenth century in most countries.



    Quote Originally Posted by Manee View Post
    Yes, read that Hitler was convinced that Communism was a Jewish plot and so opposed it, even though he was socialist in many of his policies. But I guess that could also be linked back to the difference between National Socialism and international socialism.

    Did you read politics at uni, by any chance?
    Nope. Philosophy & Sociology. So Marx & I crossed paths more than once.

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    Cricketer Of The Year Manee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    I think most of western Europe barred Jews from most trades or professions until relatively recently. Citizenship and voting rights were only accorded in the nineteenth century in most countries.
    Wow, certainly got cause and effect mixed up there, ITSTL.

    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Nope. Philosophy & Sociology. So Marx & I crossed paths more than once.
    Philosophy & Sociology sounds quite interesting, was thinking of applying for something like that if I don't get any offers for PPE this year.

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    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    I think a critical reading of the Torah (or the Quaran) as the cause of anti-semitism or anti-muslim is a huge stretch. Most people, even at the top intellectual echelon of anti-semitism, rarely use that as a reason. Well, they may use it Ex Posto Facto to justify their actions, but I don't think that's the root.

    Most of the time, the Jews have been a small population within a larger one. Considering the insular nature of their community, and their often successful career paths due to the value generally placed on education, they make an easy convincing target. The people fanning the flames don't have to do much - (1) they are insular so most people have no clue about their beliefs, (2) they are often easily identifiable, especially orthodox jews, and (3) they frequently are better off economically than the average man of the majority.

    So if you're a guy with less than perfect morals, you have a ready made minority with a lot of economic power, but perhaps not as much political or social power in society that you can pick on and do whatever you want with.
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