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Thread: The daily poll.

  1. #46
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend andyc's Avatar
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    I like the compulsory system because it kind of forces you to at least get a very basic idea of who you might vote for. And, if it comes to it and you really don't want to vote, just rock up, get your name ticked off and don't actually vote, or just turn in an empty ballot sheet.
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  2. #47
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perm View Post
    Haha, no way mate. Democracy is all about choice, so why not the choice not to vote?
    Quote Originally Posted by Perm View Post
    But by forcing everybody to vote, you're taking away the biggest part about democracy. It's not like everybody is going to vote anyway, even if it is compulsory.

    Seriously though, have never understand the whole "If you don't vote, you aren't American/Australian/whatever" that seems to crop up with compulsory voting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    I couldnt think of anything worse (well I probably could but I get sickened by the idea of compulsory voting)

    Choice and commitment are they key. If I dont want to endorse a candidate, I dont see why I should be forced to do so by someone that insists I do. Also, if I cant be bothered then I should be allowed to sit on my fat arse if I want to.

    "Oh, but you could spoil the ballot"

    Seriously? Im going to do all that just because Im told I have to!

    Voting, and associated choices, are between a man and his conscience. Noone else.
    Conscious I've had a few long rants/lectures about this before, so I'll try to keep this brief.

    Democracy is not about total freedom of choice. That's anarchism. Democracy is about deciding via majority consensus as to what obligations and impositions the state imposes on its subjects, and what benefits it delivers. Just as its a requirement that we pay taxes and follow the law (stay with me here Perm), it should be a requirement that you make the very minimal effort to express an opinion as to who is the suitable leadership for the state every 3-5 years.

    Sure you can spoil your ballot or vote informal, that's your choice. But most people actually end up voting one way or another. And that's democracy. The idea that only people who are passionate or committed to a party, or a particular cause, should be the ones to express an opinion is a short cut to extremism. Forcing candidates to gain support from a majority of everyone means that they can't stray too far one way or another, and you get a very stable, inclusive, system.

    The other major benefit of compulsory voting is that it massively decreases the corruption of elected officials. In countries where voting is not compulsory, fund-raising is a much bigger priority, as the side that can best mobilise potential voters to come and vote, who may not be the side whose policies are more popular, will win. That puts more pressure on pollies to accept donations from whereever, and its an inevitability that the more fund-raising is done, and the more money is sloshing around in political party coffers, they become consciously or unconsciously corrupt.

    The whole "I don't care, why should I have to vote" argument is really pathetically apathetic IMO. If you can't be assed enough to read a couple of newspaper articles, or watch a televised debate once every three years and spend 15 minutes going to the local school to tick a box, when its only something as inconsequential as how your country is governed, you don't really deserve to live in a decent country which enjoys democracy.
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  3. #48
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Great, then vote. Ill choose to wait until there is someone I really want to endorse. Ill vote because I choose to, not because Im told to.

    For the record, Ive read more than one or two news articles in the past but I have never voted in an election (I would have voted in the last Presidential election but my ballot arrived in Bulgaria too late).

    If I dont really care for someone, or if all sides have a particular stance that I disagree with, then in no way am I voting. Im also not taking a morning off work just to spoil a ballot paper either. That is just silly.
    Last edited by Goughy; 16-03-2009 at 07:21 AM.
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  4. #49
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Elections here are generally held on a Saturday morning, and you could not have to travel more than 15 minutes to find a polling station. The whole thing could not take you more than 40 minutes to do. Always boggles the mind how other countries manage to make such a hash of holding elections (USA, I'm looking at you).

    Do you also not pay taxes just because your told to, but only when you choose to? Its a perfectly reasonable requirement from the state upon the populace that you at least express a preference, even if it is choosing between the lesser of two evils from your perspective.


  5. #50
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post

    Do you also not pay taxes just because your told to, but only when you choose to? Its a perfectly reasonable requirement from the state upon the populace that you at least express a preference, even if it is choosing between the lesser of two evils from your perspective.
    Taxes, schooling etc are decisions that we have collectively decided need to be implemented.

    However, the shorter the list of state enforced compulsory activities the better. After a certain point, the less interference the better. Just because we have to pay taxes (actually we donít, only if we work but letís leave that nuance out) doesnít give carte blanche to introduce other compulsory rules.

    These must be kept to a minimum and allow people to make their own decisions regarding their well-being.

    Ok, so we have taxes, then compulsory voting, hmm..how about mandatory 5 fruit and veg a day, how about compulsory parenting classes for new parents, how about incarceration for obese people until they drop to a healthy weight etc

    Some of these sound ridiculous but I have compulsory voting in the same category. I canít imagine living where that exists.

    You may think it is perfectly reasonable requirement, but in all honesty your opinion (an everyone else) counts for nothing in relation to my vote. You have no say. It is none of your, or the State's, business.

    Out of interest, what is the punishment for not voting in Aus?

  6. #51
    Cricketer Of The Year Kweek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    Taxes, schooling etc are decisions that we have collectively decided need to be implemented.

    However, the shorter the list of state enforced compulsory activities the better. After a certain point, the less interference the better. Just because we have to pay taxes (actually we donít, only if we work but letís leave that nuance out) doesnít give carte blanche to introduce other compulsory rules.

    These must be kept to a minimum and allow people to make their own decisions regarding their well-being.

    Ok, so we have taxes, then compulsory voting, hmm..how about mandatory 5 fruit and veg a day, how about compulsory parenting classes for new parents, how about incarceration for obese people until they drop to a healthy weight etc

    Some of these sound ridiculous but I have compulsory voting in the same category. I canít imagine living where that exists.

    You may think it is perfectly reasonable requirement, but in all honesty your opinion (an everyone else) counts for nothing in relation to my vote. You have no say. It is none of your, or the State's, business.

    Out of interest, what is the punishment for not voting in Aus?
    I totally agree!
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  7. #52
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kweek View Post
    I totally agree!
    I get very offended by any government legislating about the bedroom or ballot box.

    They are the two places that should be sacred and free of interference.

  8. #53
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    The punishment for not voting is a $50 fine.

    They don't try to tell you how to vote, only that you must at least come, collect a ballot paper and place it in a polling booth. You can leave it blank or do whatever you want with it.

    I agree that impositions should be as minimal as possible, but I just don't see it as a big imposition. It's simply asking people to take at least the vaguest interest in the running of their society, and ticking a box once every three years. Taxes, and the other laws that exist are much, much more onerous impositions.

    I find it curious that you place voting on such a pedestal that you find it offensive that anyone should influence whether or not you do so, and yet you choose not to exercise your right to vote. Contradictory perhaps?

  9. #54
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    I find it curious that you place voting on such a pedestal that you find it offensive that anyone should influence whether or not you do so, and yet you choose not to exercise your right to vote. Contradictory perhaps?
    No. I dont see it as contradictory. I also dont put it on a pedestal. I see it as mine to do with as I want.

  10. #55
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Fair enough.

    My main reason for liking it is that it means the political parties are quite so desperate for funds, and hence you get a more honest (albeit still pretty dishonest in normal terms) system - miles ahead of places like Japan and the US for instance, where money has thoroughly corrupted the system.

  11. #56
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    Fair enough.

    My main reason for liking it is that it means the political parties are quite so desperate for funds, and hence you get a more honest (albeit still pretty dishonest in normal terms) system - miles ahead of places like Japan and the US for instance, where money has thoroughly corrupted the system.
    It will not change my mind, but Im all for learning. Can you link to an article about its impact on party finances? Would be interesting reading.

  12. #57
    International Captain cover drive man's Avatar
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    Well I think you can imagine whats next:

    Poll 5
    Should democratic countries make voting compulsory?

    1) Yes
    2) No
    3) Unsure

    Well, personally if you force people to vote I feel you'll obviously be giving the opportunity to change the leadership to someone who has no idea what they're really voting for, was watching a women on TV saying about Alistair Darling "How can we expect him to fix the economy, he cant even coordinate his hair and eyebrows?" Firstly, there's a lot more to the economy than just "fixing" It, and second his hair has nothing to do with it. Do we really want people like this changing the course of elections? I vote no.
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  13. #58
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    No (obv)

    Off the top of my head I dont know, did any dictators of one-party states make voting compulsory? Would be a fun election.
    Last edited by Goughy; 16-03-2009 at 10:04 AM.

  14. #59
    International Regular Steulen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    No (obv)

    Off the top of my head I dont know, did any dictators of one-party states make voting compulsory? Would be a fun election.
    North Korea had a vote last week. 99.98% voted, and there was just one candidate per district so all the voters had to do was turn up and put a piece of paper in the ballot box.

    Presumably, they then went for a pizza

    I vote no as well. Just because I can, mind, I'm under no obligation to do so. In fact, can't we just agree that every CW user who does not vote in this poll implicitly votes for the 'no' option?
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  15. #60
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    I'll always vote on referendums. When there's one issue to decide I either agree with it or don't agree with it. I won't vote in elections because my views never correspond with any parties. Regarding crime I'll tend to be pretty conservative, but I'm 100% behind EU co-operation. Then, with issues like the economy, what I'm most concerned with is the competency of the people involved rather than their position on the political spectrum.

    So i choose not to vote a lot of the time. But as much as i like the freedom not to do so, i think it's probably better for a country to have voting as compulsory. Elections shouldn't be decided by who most efficiently publicises their campaign in order to draw their supporters into actually voting.
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