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Thread: You know what really grinds my gears? II

  1. #8071
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    I always found it annoying that students are expected not to "read" presentations actually. Professional lectures and speeches are read off a script, they aren't recited from memory or off cue card notes. Obviously engaging with the audience etc is an important skillset and people need to learn it, but I'd rather listen to something that is practiced and written out than listen to someone stumble over their notes, and so would everyone else, which is why theatres for lectures, conferences etc are designed so that the lecturer can read off a piece of paper and still make eye contact with the audience. It makes for much better content which is obviously the more important skill in humanities disciplines.

    May be different in other fields though, tbf.
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  2. #8072
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad View Post
    I always found it annoying that students are expected not to "read" presentations actually. Professional lectures and speeches are read off a script, they aren't recited from memory or off cue card notes. Obviously engaging with the audience etc is an important skillset and people need to learn it, but I'd rather listen to something that is practiced and written out than listen to someone stumble over their notes, and so would everyone else, which is why theatres for lectures, conferences etc are designed so that the lecturer can read off a piece of paper and still make eye contact with the audience. It makes for much better content which is obviously the more important skill in humanities disciplines.

    May be different in other fields though, tbf.
    What professional field would you read off a script?

    Watching someone read something they're talking about just smacks of the person not actually knowing or even believeing what they're talking about.
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  3. #8073
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    What professional field would you read off a script?

    Watching someone read something they're talking about just smacks of the person not actually knowing or even believeing what they're talking about.
    It's very common in lectures in humanities fields that aren't aimed at undergrads where the word for word content will be scrutinised. I'm not talking about reading every word off a script and never looking up of course, but the bulk of the content will be read rather than spoken from memory or notes, in a manner which would lose marks for undergrads. It's a stylistic choice. Lots of other fields too, like politics...

    This sort of thing is what I'm talking about: Slavoj Zizek: The Monstrosity of Christ - YouTube
    Last edited by FaaipDeOiad; 25-05-2012 at 10:00 AM.

  4. #8074
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad View Post
    It's very common in lectures in humanities fields that aren't aimed at undergrads where the word for word content will be scrutinised. I'm not talking about reading every word off a script and never looking up of course, but the bulk of the content will be read rather than spoken from memory or notes, in a manner which would lose marks for undergrads. It's a stylistic choice. Lots of other fields too, like politics...

    This sort of thing is what I'm talking about: Slavoj Zizek: The Monstrosity of Christ - YouTube
    Not sure wtf is going on there, but I'd hardly consider him to be a professional.

    Either way, isn't the point to a university presentation, amongst other things, to prove you know the content you're talking about? Any **** can go up there and read. When I did uni presentations I didn't bring a scrap of paper in with me, just spoke about the topic as if I was having a discussion with some **** on the street about it.


  5. #8075
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Not sure wtf is going on there, but I'd hardly consider him to be a professional.

    Either way, isn't the point to a university presentation, amongst other things, to prove you know the content you're talking about? Any **** can go up there and read. When I did uni presentations I didn't bring a scrap of paper in with me, just spoke about the topic as if I was having a discussion with some **** on the street about it.
    Well he's probably the most famous intellectual in the world, at least in humanities. Make of that what you will.

    Personally I saw the point of uni presentations as being showing that you know how to prepare and present material to other students, encouraging shared learning and obviously fostering skills for public speaking and presentation which is very important in a lot of fields. My issue with making a big deal out of not reading off a piece of paper is that it's totally acceptable to use a script or notes within reason in professional environments when you speak in public. Not to say you have to use them, just that it's not a huge deal if you do IMO.

    Watch a debate for example and usually the debaters will read off a script for their initial argument and then speak off the cuff in rebuttal and answering questions. The quality of the argument will obviously be better with prepared remarks so that's what people do.

    The God Debate: Hitchens vs. D'Souza - YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad View Post
    Well he's probably the most famous intellectual in the world, at least in humanities. Make of that what you will.

    Personally I saw the point of uni presentations as being showing that you know how to prepare and present material to other students, encouraging shared learning and obviously fostering skills for public speaking and presentation which is very important in a lot of fields. My issue with making a big deal out of not reading off a piece of paper is that it's totally acceptable to use a script or notes within reason in professional environments when you speak in public. Not to say you have to use them, just that it's not a huge deal if you do IMO.

    Watch a debate for example and usually the debaters will read off a script for their initial argument and then speak off the cuff in rebuttal and answering questions. The quality of the argument will obviously be better with prepared remarks so that's what people do.

    The God Debate: Hitchens vs. D'Souza - YouTube
    Debates are not presentations.

    Presentations, at university, have several outcomes. There is a presenting measure, which typically is concerned with how well you engage with the audience, but more importantly there is a 'know your ****' criteria, which you can't demonstrate if you just read.

    What I've found to be unrealistic is closed book exams. One of my degrees comprised of mostly closed books, but it's complete horse **** in most instances. How many times are you going to be closed off from the entire world with no resources at your disposal and you're then required to solve a problem.

    Also, I see no point in schools making kids do manual long division and all that ****. Use a calculator ffs.
    Last edited by benchmark00; 25-05-2012 at 10:39 AM.

  7. #8077
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    you got a cigarette mATe?????
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  9. #8079
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    What I've found to be unrealistic is closed book exams. One of my degrees comprised of mostly closed books, but it's complete horse **** in most instances. How many times are you going to be closed off from the entire world with no resources at your disposal and you're then required to solve a problem.

    Also, I see no point in schools making kids do manual long division and all that ****. Use a calculator ffs.
    Yeah agreed. Closed-book exams test how good you are at exams, not your aptitude for a particular field of work or your knowledge of the material or anything. I'm sure there's a massive correlation between how comfortable a student feels writing for 3 hours by hand and how well they do on exams.

    Exams in subjects like english are the worst too. A subject that is meant to expand your ability to closely read and analyse a text, tested by taking the text away and seeing how well you remember it. Makes sense.

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    HEY TONY!!!! u got a cig mATe?

  11. #8081
    Hall of Fame Member Marcuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    What I've found to be unrealistic is closed book exams. One of my degrees comprised of mostly closed books, but it's complete horse **** in most instances. How many times are you going to be closed off from the entire world with no resources at your disposal and you're then required to solve a problem.
    Every module of my degree. Yay!

    It's brilliant, they spend the whole year ensuring you understand different theories, legal concepts etc etc and then the exam is a giant memory test of cases basically.

  12. #8082
    Cricketer Of The Year Adamc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    What I've found to be unrealistic is closed book exams. One of my degrees comprised of mostly closed books, but it's complete horse **** in most instances. How many times are you going to be closed off from the entire world with no resources at your disposal and you're then required to solve a problem.
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  13. #8083
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    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Never been lectured or attended a presentation where the lecturer was reliant on reading the script.
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  15. #8085
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    The cash international students bring in are absolutely propping-up Australian universities. There's been a massive effort under-way to appeal to non-residents through offering more masters by coursework, lowering the points required for the thesis in a masters by thesis and a big increase in subtly different undergrad courses. It's no coincidence.

    I assumed that was the case. It's pretty sad that the quality of education has to suffer to accommodate international students (in some cases) though. Working in an industry, and I use that term loosely, that sees these students on their way to university it's blatantly clear that you're advanced up the educational rung towards university based on the fact you're paying money to be at our school in the first place, and not on the effort you put in to make sure you improve your English and are ready for university.

    I've tried to put students (mainly Saudi men, cause they're as lazy as ****) back down into non-Academic classes as they're never there and when they are they don't do anything. This rarely ever happens because I don't have students, I have customers. The funny thing is, if you do manage to put a student down a level or hold them back, usually they make an attempt to pick up their game. Unfortunately it seems people in charge of schools are too worried they'll lose their dollars, and not concerned enough about actually maintaining a level of educational integrity. Working in the private English sector, I can assure you most involved tip-toe around the students like they're in control of everything that goes on, and have an eye firmly on the bottom line. In my opinion, this does nothing for the students (or the teachers). Case in point is a Chinese guy who apparently won a Dean's Award at UQ for accounting. His English skills consisted of typing something like "Body not good, no work" when he was sick and couldn't come to work...after winning the award he couldn't get a job with an Australian company because he couldn't speak English well enough, so he ended up in Sydney getting underpaid by a Chinese-owned accountancy firm...at the end of the day, we're not doing them any favours by allowing them in. We're just taking their money and sending them on their way. If some demand was made on this bloke to have his English skills up to scratch before he started he might've actually gained some benefit from paying so much money in the first place.

    There are some good students that you see go through too, however I can't imagine I'd be as well-accommodated in other countries if I wanted to go to uni but made little effort to actually learn the language.

    Having said that, I'm sure the fact I'm surrounded by foreign students in the Post Grad course I'm doing at the moment makes it easier for me to get decent marks when I'm studying something I didn't study in my undergraduate degree. So cheers chaps.
    Last edited by Son Of Coco; 25-05-2012 at 06:57 PM.
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