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Thread: Battle of the Leaders: Let the games begin

  1. #1
    cpr
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    Battle of the Leaders: Let the games begin

    Round 1

    Imre Nagy

    V

    Nelson Mandela


    Imre Nagy
    June 7, 1896 – June 16, 1958

    Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the People's Republic of Hungary
    July 4, 1953 – April 18, 1955
    October 24, 1956 – November 4, 1956

    Nominated by HeathDavisSpeed
    Seconded by Chubb


    Nelson Mandela
    born 18 July 1918

    President of South Africa
    27 April 1994 – 14 June 1999

    Nominated by NUFAN
    Seconded by Anil



    Now for the discourse, only one appointee has offered to get on the campaign and mount the soapbox, here's Heath looking for your hearts and votes

    Have you ever lived in a Dictatorship? Chances are you haven't. In the early 1950s, however, the people of Hungary lived in fear of the constant threat of
    their "Security Police" (�VH). Under the brutal Mátyás Rákosi, Hungarian citizens were regularly denounced and forced into slave labour; often not even in
    their own country. In a single year, over 26,000 were forceably relocated from Budapest into forced labour. It is against this backdrop that Imre Nagy
    attempted to break the mould.

    Following the death of Stalin in 1953, the brutal edge of Communism was being dulled during which a number of Eastern European Communist parties developed a
    reform movement. In Hungary, the spearhead of this movement was Imre Nagy. Nagy became Prime Minister of Hungary in 1955, with Rakosi remaining the General
    Secretary and effective leader of the country. During this period, Nagy repeatedly attempted to introduce reforms, particularly in the education system and
    was given a remit by the Soviet leadership to remove the instruments of the Rakosi Cult of Personality. Nagy's leadership was constantly undermined by
    Rakosi who remained a figurehead for Stalinites and strict adherants to Communism who did not like the idea of Nagy's reforms. Rakosi's work behind the
    scenery saw Nagy banished from the Communist Party and sacked as Prime Minister.

    Rather than weakening Nagy's position, this strengthened his resolve and belief in his reforms. Following a student revolt in Budapest in 1956,
    against the Stalinist government the Soviet Union were convinced to dispense with Rakosi and to reinstate Nagy as Prime Minister.

    Nagy, initially appealed to the public for calm yet he quickly realised the strength of public opinion against the old regime and the Soviets and set up
    a broad government which included some non-communist ministers. Nagy immediately abolished both the hated �VH and the one-party system.
    Nagy considered his aim to be that Hungary should be a neutral, multiparty social democracy. This meant that many political prisoners, who were incarcerated
    under Rakosi were released. Nagy also legalised previously banned Political parties and allowed them to join the coalition.

    For 10 days, Nagy's government stood as a shining beacon in the Eastern European political landscape; but the whole time the Soviet Army stood on the fringes
    of Hungary awaiting the order to invade. Then, on the 1st November 1956, Imre Nagy received assurances from Yuri Andropov (later to become leader of the
    Soviet Union) that these troops would not attack. As a result, Nagy withdrew from the Warsaw Pact and declared Hungary's neutrality.

    The Soviets invaded on the 4th November, and despite receiving assurances that he would be unharmed, Nagy was arrested and secretly executed.

    Nagy had ultimately failed in his aim, but for 10 days had the strength to give Hungary the freedom that it had been looking for. He'd stood up against the
    might of the secret police and the Soviet forces, but ultimately failed

    His legacy continued though. Nagy gave hope to the masses throughout his time in power; he was even called "Imre Bacsi" €” Uncle Imre €” by a significant
    number of Hungarians. It can also be argued that without Imre Nagy there probably would have been no Mikhail Gorbachev, Glasnost or Perestroika. Many of the
    ideas that Nagy had brought in during his brief tenure were replicated 30 years later as the final curtain was drawn on the Soviet Union.

    Criticism of Mandela

    So, you've become one of the most powerful men in the world, elected on a wave of euphoria and with a remit to dismantle the instruments of Apartheid.

    That's great, and a rip-roaring success to boot. Great stuff, Nelson my lad.

    But what an introverted little man. He's more than willing to fix the bias and decades of abuses in South Africa, but he stands idly by with only a word
    or two to say about repeated abuses and atrocities against all colours in Zimbabwe, and doesn't dare mention the impact of land reforms which seem to be
    sweeping through Southern African states like wildfire. Well, I guess your standing in the eyes of your fellow African leaders is that important so you
    don't want to upset the applecart too much.

    Secondly, isn't it great that you realise your mistake when its too late to do anything about it? On the 9th January 2005, Mandela himself admitted that
    he may well have failed his own people by not doing enough about the AIDS epidemic when he was South African leader. AIDS charities have also repeatedly
    criticised his government's lack of activity on this subject. The AIDS epidemic has reduced life expectancy in South Africa from a peak of 63 years in 1991
    down to 46 in 2003. During the years of his presidency, Mandela presided over a reduction of life expectancy of 12 years! 12 years in an economically sound
    period. Each citizen of South Africa would live, on average, 12 years less at the end of his presidency compared to the start. That's a huge change.
    Mandela's Minister of Health, Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma once spent the equivalent of $4 million on a theatrical production that was supposed to tour the
    country advising people on how to avoid AIDS which never happened. $4m and Mandela did nothing about it when that misspending came to light. Similarly, he
    was very quiet on the matter when his same minister later announced that scientists had "found a cure for AIDS" without having submitted the claim to normal
    scrutiny. So, not only laissez-faire on the matter, but his government presided over some extremely counter-productive impacts.

    Also, despite Mandela being widely seen as a humanitarian, he has continued to support the diamond industry in Southern Africa. This criticism is based on
    Mandela having South Africa's self-interest in the diamond industry at heart rather than the needs and safety concerns of the workers. His long standing
    friendship with former senior directors at De Beers (diamond company) has only served to enhance this view.

    Its de-rigeur to use Mandela to support the Cause de Jour and you always see him popping to voice his support for this, that and the other and sure, his
    achievements could be considered monumental. On the other hand, given the celebrity that surrounds him, it almost seems impossible to vote against him.
    Scratch the surface and you might just find that Mandela isn't the rip-roaring success the media likes to make him out to be. Mandela's two legacies will
    be a free South Africa, but a South Africa where disease is rampant and that people will live shorter lives than under an effective police state. In the
    long term, Mandela will be remembered as much for his failures on AIDS as for his success in the removal of apartheid. And so, considering this - vote
    Imre Nagy; an irrepressible man who stood up against the might of the Soviet Union at its height and for 10 glorious days showed Eastern Europe what it
    felt like to be free.

    Rousing book, sorry, speech by Mr HD Speed (Nagy Party) there.

    Others can have their retort attached to this post




    Folks, the polls are open, 24 hours 45 minutes to get them votes in

    Tomorrow shall see another big battle. The Fredfertang/age_master team's Haile Selassie take on the mighty name of John F Kennedy from the Anil/Jamee999 camp. Will anyone take up the challenge of leading their boy home? email cpraftery@cricketmail.net with the PR
    "All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is called a philosopher." - Ambrose Bierce
    Langeveldt: I of course blame their parents.. and unchecked immigration!
    GingerFurball: He's Austrian, they tend to produce the odd ****ed up individual
    Burgey: Be careful dealing with neighbours whose cars don't have wheels but whose houses do.
    Uppercut: Maybe I just need better strippers

  2. #2
    Cricketer Of The Year ripper868's Avatar
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    Impressive speech heath, nearly get my vote based on the time and effort that must have been (or possibly an old high school project copy pasted?)

    Mandela
    Parmi

    Avatar now by choice. 5-0 in the Ashes and all.

  3. #3
    International Coach HeathDavisSpeed's Avatar
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    I may take up the anti-Kennedy challenge. Everything that's bad about the US - all personality and no policy. His presidency was completely devoid of anything. A perfect vacuum on the domestic front. His lasting legacy was to get the US stuck into a conflict they couldn't win (Vietnam)

    To my constant anger, Lyndon Johnson gets the blame for Vietnam and none of the glory for the civil rights legislation, medicare/medicaid packages. Kennedy gets the glory, but gave none of the output.

    I'm voting Nagy to keep this one a contest - though my speech could be formatted better!
    >>>>>>WHHOOOOOOOOOSHHHHHHH>>>>>>
    Fascist Dictator of the Heath Davis Appreciation Society
    Supporting Petone's Finest since the very start - Iain O'Brien
    Adam Wheater - Another batsman off the Essex production line
    Also Supporting the All Time #1 Batsman of All Time Ever - Jacques Kallis and the much maligned Peter Siddle.


    Vimes tells it how it is:
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel_Vimes View Post
    Heath worryingly quick.

  4. #4
    International Coach HeathDavisSpeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripper868 View Post
    Impressive speech heath, nearly get my vote based on the time and effort that must have been (or possibly an old high school project copy pasted?)
    Nah, wrote that one fresh last night before going to see the Arctic Monkeys. Nagy pretty much from memory, anti-Mandela based on some research (though the AIDS epidemic and inaction on Zimbabwe are pretty well known)


  5. #5
    Cricketer Of The Year ripper868's Avatar
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    Impressive. Good play to you sir with a wimbeldon tennis round of applause attached.

  6. #6
    99*
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    Mandela.
    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey
    She tells me the thing will flatten out, I say "Like your chest?" Bad mistake.

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    Request Your Custom Title Now! Simon's Avatar
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    Nagy, Heath seems to have gone to a lot of trouble.

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    cpr
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post

    To my constant anger, Lyndon Johnson gets the blame for Vietnam and none of the glory for the civil rights legislation, medicare/medicaid packages. Kennedy gets the glory, but gave none of the output.
    Ah Johnson, if not for Vietnam, possibly would've been America's greatest President IMO. Great Society was a pretty damn good plan.


    As in all other battles, will be saving my vote for a decider if needed

    Early on in the tie Mandela takes a 2-1 lead thanks to an almost apologetic goal from Ripper. Nagy equalise straight away through a vicious HDS strike, before 99* with a simple but effective effort just before the half hour mark. However, when everyones back turns Simon slots in an equaliser, 2-2, Game On!
    Last edited by cpr; 13-01-2009 at 04:31 PM. Reason: Simon sneaked in like the slippery eel he is

  9. #9
    Cricketer Of The Year ripper868's Avatar
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    haha, nice cpr...was always going mandela but do appreciate heaths effort nonetheless

  10. #10
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Mandela for me. Nice work with the speech, but Mandela's lasting impact can't be ignored.
    I know a place where a royal flush
    Can never beat a pair

  11. #11
    International Coach HeathDavisSpeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad View Post
    Mandela for me. Nice work with the speech, but Mandela's lasting impact can't be ignored.
    As you'll see in my speech, his lasting impact is a country with a reduced life expectancy of 12 years! Apartheid would have been swept aside by another figure if Mandela wasn't there, albeit with more difficulty.

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    Cricketer Of The Year SirBloody Idiot's Avatar
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    Tough one, IMO. I'm voting Nagy because he had the balls to go up against the Soviets. Even though Hungary suffered in the long term, it was no more than the Poles did under Gomulka, so he was basically ****ed either way.

  13. #13
    cpr
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    In true stirring style.....

    Mandela ruled for 5 years, life expectancy dropped by 12, is it arguable to say that Nelson Mandela owes the average South African 7 years of their life?

    Discuss.

  14. #14
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    As you'll see in my speech, his lasting impact is a country with a reduced life expectancy of 12 years! Apartheid would have been swept aside by another figure if Mandela wasn't there, albeit with more difficulty.
    Probably true, but you can say that about a lot of leaders and their achievements. Just because something may have happened anyway doesn't really diminish Mandela's achievement on that front.

  15. #15
    Cricketer Of The Year ripper868's Avatar
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    No.

    There is no average South African

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