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Thread: FBI lands in Mumbai to conduct investigation into the bombings

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    FBI lands in Mumbai to conduct investigation into the bombings

    http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/...o-business.htm

    Doubts -

    1. Isn't FBI sanctioned to conduct it's stuff only inside the territory of USA? And CIA handles international stuff?

    2. What is it's scope? And how much freedom is it allowed in India?

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    International Coach duffer's Avatar
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    Probably trying to get an "independent" source to try and nail Pakistan in this somehow. Or maybe I'm being cynical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by duffer View Post
    Probably trying to get an "independent" source to try and nail Pakistan in this somehow. Or maybe I'm being cynical.
    However, FBI's jurisdiction is strictly domestic right? Wikied and found nothing contrary.

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    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Precambrian View Post
    However, FBI's jurisdiction is strictly domestic right? Wikied and found nothing contrary.
    Nah, its a law enforcement agency for the United States government. Where the laws of the US have force, it has powers. Now obviously this means that generally it is confined in its powers to acting within the US, however there are categories of crime that the US, and other countries, have said contravene their national laws whereever they take place. Enforceability is normally the major stumbling block with such decisions though - the Australian government could rule that its illegal for anyone to burn an Australian flag, but if some guy in India does that, they don't really have much scope to do anything about it.

    Where that changes radically is when an agency like the FBI is invited by a foreign government to come and cooperate with their own agencies, usually because they have specialised knowledge or equipment that the locals don't have. In that case, they'd be working in liaison with the Indians, with the Special Branch or whoever doing all the actual arresting etc, and supervising the handling of evidence. That isn't unusual and has certainly happened in the past in terrorism related issues - for instance the Australian Federal Police cooperated with Indonesian authorities to assist in the investigation of the Bali bombings, providing specialised investigative techniques and forensics.

    I'd doubt very much the FBI is going to be investigating the issue away from Indian authorities, and certainly won't be arresting people and dragging them back to the US. They'll be working with Indian police, and helping them nail the right people, that's all. Bush would have said, "what can we do to help?" and the government would have said, "help us catch the rest of this network".
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    Nah, its a law enforcement agency for the United States government. Where the laws of the US have force, it has powers. Now obviously this means that generally it is confined in its powers to acting within the US, however there are categories of crime that the US, and other countries, have said contravene their national laws whereever they take place. Enforceability is normally the major stumbling block with such decisions though - the Australian government could rule that its illegal for anyone to burn an Australian flag, but if some guy in India does that, they don't really have much scope to do anything about it.

    Where that changes radically is when an agency like the FBI is invited by a foreign government to come and cooperate with their own agencies, usually because they have specialised knowledge or equipment that the locals don't have. In that case, they'd be working in liaison with the Indians, with the Special Branch or whoever doing all the actual arresting etc, and supervising the handling of evidence. That isn't unusual and has certainly happened in the past in terrorism related issues - for instance the Australian Federal Police cooperated with Indonesian authorities to assist in the investigation of the Bali bombings, providing specialised investigative techniques and forensics.

    I'd doubt very much the FBI is going to be investigating the issue away from Indian authorities, and certainly won't be arresting people and dragging them back to the US. They'll be working with Indian police, and helping them nail the right people, that's all. Bush would have said, "what can we do to help?" and the government would have said, "help us catch the rest of this network".
    Yep, it's obviously not within their statutory rights but they can act in a consultancy role. Nothing unusual there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    Nah, its a law enforcement agency for the United States government. Where the laws of the US have force, it has powers. Now obviously this means that generally it is confined in its powers to acting within the US, however there are categories of crime that the US, and other countries, have said contravene their national laws whereever they take place. Enforceability is normally the major stumbling block with such decisions though - the Australian government could rule that its illegal for anyone to burn an Australian flag, but if some guy in India does that, they don't really have much scope to do anything about it.

    Where that changes radically is when an agency like the FBI is invited by a foreign government to come and cooperate with their own agencies, usually because they have specialised knowledge or equipment that the locals don't have. In that case, they'd be working in liaison with the Indians, with the Special Branch or whoever doing all the actual arresting etc, and supervising the handling of evidence. That isn't unusual and has certainly happened in the past in terrorism related issues - for instance the Australian Federal Police cooperated with Indonesian authorities to assist in the investigation of the Bali bombings, providing specialised investigative techniques and forensics.

    I'd doubt very much the FBI is going to be investigating the issue away from Indian authorities, and certainly won't be arresting people and dragging them back to the US. They'll be working with Indian police, and helping them nail the right people, that's all. Bush would have said, "what can we do to help?" and the government would have said, "help us catch the rest of this network".
    Makes sense when they are acting as consultants.

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    4/1 Sanz to bastardise the thread and it ens up locked.

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    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Precambrian View Post
    http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/...o-business.htm

    Doubts -

    1. Isn't FBI sanctioned to conduct it's stuff only inside the territory of USA? And CIA handles international stuff?

    2. What is it's scope? And how much freedom is it allowed in India?
    1. To be simple, FBI conducts investigations and the CIA collects information.

    2. The scope is whatever the Indian government allows it. FBI often get involve at the invitation of foreign governements, just as Scotland Yard often has officers on secondment working overseas with foreign agencies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    1. To be simple, FBI corrupts investigations and the CIA creates information.
    Corrected
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    I was just reading this from the indian website:
    http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/...or-attacks.htm

    A few interesting questions asked from people:

    1: If the terrorists were Pakistani, how did they have such an intimate knowledge of the terrain? The two or three cowards who attacked the CST on Wednesday night made their way from the CST through a road on the left side of The Times of India building towards the Cama and Albess hospital/Azad Maidan police station, a route that is known only to true-blood Mumbaikars. Were they locals? Or did they conduct extensive reconnisance of the likely routes of escape?

    2: Such an operation could not have been conducted without extensive training and preparation, possibly on models of the Taj and Trident or Chabad House/Nariman House. Could this have been achieved at the rudimentary training camps hosted by the Lashkar-e-Tayiba in Pakistan occupied Kashmir? Or was it a more systematised operation conducted by a State agency in a hostile country?

    3: The terrorists are said to have done extensive reconnisance of the city. If they are Pakistanis, how did they get earlier entry to the city unnoticed? Did they come in by boat? Or did they use other routes to escape notice?

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    You know what's really funny about articles like that, though? They're built on the presumption that the Police wouldn't already be investigating all of those avenues to establish a timeline of events. Questions like "Why hasn't x been investigated?" are easily answered by anyone who has ever worked in a Police environment with "Investigations take time and resources are limited."

    They're also built on the presumption that the results of such lines of inquiry will be publicly available or up for discussion. Err, no. "Are the CCTV records of the hotels available?" Yes. Not to you.

    A lot of the questions are also built on the assumption that everything in the real world works perfectly, money is no object to safety and prevention, etc. Questions like "Why do the best hotels in Mumbai have such pathetic security?" Security costs money and it's all very well to demand perfect security to prevent a highly infrequent event when you're not the one to pay for it.

    "How come the terrorists were able to fight for more then 40 hours? This is very clear that all these people got the arms and weapons ready on site in advance. Isn't this a question on the qualification and intelligence of our police and all other security agencies?"

    No it's not. It's because something like a large-scale terrorist attack with multiple strongholds where the terrorist, by definition, have the drop on the local Police is a complex thing to deal with. Mistakes occur, communication between the decision-makers themselves or with the troops on the ground is rarely perfect, bad decisions in hindsight are made with what seems good info at the time, stuff doesn't work, stuff dies, people die, plans fall apart, etc. There is no one, regimented way to deal with such a fluid situation and when things get hairy, **** happens. Facts of life in a police response. It's why counter-terrorism practice ops are done regularly and different models for how to organise the troops are tested; there are different ways to respond to different situations.

    Sure, the local Police might not have been in the best position to deal with the whole thing. But I reckon, transferring what happened to, say, Sydney would have resulted in a pretty similar outcome. That one of their higher-ups got knocked-off in the early stages would not have helped matters.

    So easy to Monday-morning quarter-back these sorts of things, no kidding.
    Last edited by Top_Cat; 01-12-2008 at 05:11 PM.

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    School Boy/Girl Captain WhatisRight's Avatar
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    The caught terrorist wearing a hindu wrist band!!!!

    http://rajanand.biz/2008/11/29/mumba...du-wrist-band/

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    School Boy/Girl Captain WhatisRight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    You know what's really funny about articles like that, though? They're built on the presumption that the Police wouldn't already be investigating all of those avenues to establish a timeline of events. Questions like "Why hasn't x been investigated?" are easily answered by anyone who has ever worked in a Police environment with "Investigations take time and resources are limited."

    They're also built on the presumption that the results of such lines of inquiry will be publicly available or up for discussion. Err, no.
    Yeah i agree with you. Am not coming to any conclusion anyway. But these are some questions i would wana know myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatisRight View Post
    The caught terrorist wearing a hindu wrist band!!!!

    http://rajanand.biz/2008/11/29/mumba...du-wrist-band/
    And I wear a Zulu wrist band..

    Nah in all seriousness, I think seeing as the USA has been targetted in these acts of terror, it has an interest in getting involved in the investigation.. Good on the Indian government for letting them have a gander at what is going down..
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    Cricketer Of The Year Anil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatisRight View Post
    The caught terrorist wearing a hindu wrist band!!!!

    http://rajanand.biz/2008/11/29/mumba...du-wrist-band/
    wow! it is conclusively proved that the terrorists were hindus, absolutely no doubts whatsoever!!!!!

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