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Thread: Music discussion thread

  1. #1216
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Okay so since there is an entire thread on another forum full of people abusing each other over two famous British rock bands as though it's the apocalypse, I thought I might try listening to one.

    I'm going to choose Radiohead. I've only heard Creep, and I like it, but never really listened to their other stuff. I did a youtube search and clicked on a song called Lotus Flower and thus far I have watched a man have an epileptic fit for fifty seconds, so I thought I would come in here and ask where I should start?
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    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Sweet as, will give it a go thanks guys.
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Okay so since there is an entire thread on another forum full of people abusing each other over two famous British rock bands as though it's the apocalypse, I thought I might try listening to one.

    I'm going to choose Radiohead. I've only heard Creep, and I like it, but never really listened to their other stuff. I did a youtube search and clicked on a song called Lotus Flower and thus far I have watched a man have an epileptic fit for fifty seconds, so I thought I would come in here and ask where I should start?
    If you like Creep, you'll never be allowed to consider yourself a Radiohead fan. There are fans out there whose denial about the song is so great they earnestly believe it's possible for a band to release (in multiple countries) and watch fail then re-release a track the members of the band hate.

    Tempted to start a 'biggest myth(s) ever published about a band/musician/artist' thread.
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  4. #1219
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Okay so since there is an entire thread on another forum full of people abusing each other over two famous British rock bands as though it's the apocalypse, I thought I might try listening to one.

    I'm going to choose Radiohead. I've only heard Creep, and I like it, but never really listened to their other stuff. I did a youtube search and clicked on a song called Lotus Flower and thus far I have watched a man have an epileptic fit for fifty seconds, so I thought I would come in here and ask where I should start?
    The Bends is by far their most accessible rock album. OK Computer is probably their most accessible "great" album, and definitely worth a look.

    In Rainbows is also a great place to start, accessible but incorporating many of their post-1999 influences that began to crop up on OK Computer but really exploded into life with Kid A.

    Do not listen to Kid A until you're ready for something seriously different. It will not be what you were expecting at all if you've been listening to Creep, The Bends et al.

    Lyrically, everything between and including OK Computer and Hail To The Thief are all pretty depressing. "I have seen too much, you haven't seen enough, you haven't seen it", "The panic, the vomit, the panic, the vomit, etc. Not emo though. Just very, very bleak at times. In Rainbows is much lighter, as is The King Of Limbs (Codex is unashamedly beautiful)

    Lotus Flower is pretty indicative of they are right now though. In the more restrained mode of In Rainbows but incorporating a lot of very recent electronic (esp. dubstep and its ilk) influences, with a heavy premium on rhythm.

    Really, when you talk about Radiohead, you're talking about three "stages" of their career with some overlaps, but which are significantly different. Pablo Honey - OK Computer was more or less straight rock, although some electronic influences began to creep into OK Computer. "Just" a good example of it. Then is the Kid A era which lasted until Hail To The Thief which is very, very electronic (although still sticking to fairly rock-like song structures). Hard to pick one specific example of the kind of song they wrote in this time as it varied so much. Then In Rainbows up til now, which is tighter, less expansive, much less bleak lyrically etc. This is fairly representative.

    Leads to a kind of horses-of-courses thing, where people have certain tastes. I'm a huge fan of the Kid A era, Brumby isn't.

    The video of Lotus Flower is one of the greatest things ever seen ftr. Thom Yorke's definition of "dancing" surely shared by absolutely no one else.
    Last edited by Spark; 12-11-2011 at 06:54 AM.
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  5. #1220
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    If you like Creep, you'll never be allowed to consider yourself a Radiohead fan. There are fans out there whose denial about the song is so great they earnestly believe it's possible for a band to release (in multiple countries) and watch fail then re-release a track the members of the band hate.

    Tempted to start a 'biggest myth(s) ever published about a band/musician/artist' thread.
    Lol, I don't understand the hate for bands releasing popular hits from self labelled "hardcore" fans.

    I think it's just an attempt to appear superior to everyone else.

  6. #1221
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    The Bends is by far their most accessible rock album. OK Computer is probably their most accessible "great" album, and definitely worth a look.

    In Rainbows is also a great place to start, accessible but incorporating many of their post-1999 influences that began to crop up on OK Computer but really exploded into life with Kid A.

    Do not listen to Kid A until you're ready for something seriously different. It will not be what you were expecting at all if you've been listening to Creep, The Bends et al.

    Lyrically, everything between and including OK Computer and Hail To The Thief are all pretty depressing. "I have seen too much, you haven't seen enough, you haven't seen it", "The panic, the vomit, the panic, the vomit, etc. Not emo though. Just very, very bleak at times. In Rainbows is much lighter, as is The King Of Limbs (Codex is unashamedly beautiful)

    Lotus Flower is pretty indicative of they are right now though. In the more restrained mode of In Rainbows but incorporating a lot of very recent electronic (esp. dubstep and its ilk) influences, with a heavy premium on rhythm.

    Really, when you talk about Radiohead, you're talking about three "stages" of their career with some overlaps, but which are significantly different. Pablo Honey - OK Computer was more or less straight rock, although some electronic influences began to creep into OK Computer. "Just" a good example of it. Then is the Kid A era which lasted until Hail To The Thief which is very, very electronic (although still sticking to fairly rock-like song structures). Hard to pick one specific example of the kind of song they wrote in this time as it varied so much. Then In Rainbows up til now, which is tighter, less expansive, much less bleak lyrically etc. This is fairly representative.

    Leads to a kind of horses-of-courses thing, where people have certain tastes. I'm a huge fan of the Kid A era, Brumby isn't.

    The video of Lotus Flower is one of the greatest things ever seen ftr. Thom Yorke's definition of "dancing" surely shared by absolutely no one else.
    Cheers. Gave Karma Police a crack from OK Computer and it's encouraged me to keep listening.

  7. #1222
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Lol, I don't understand the hate for bands releasing popular hits from self labelled "hardcore" fans.

    I think it's just an attempt to appear superior to everyone else.
    It is a bit weird. I do think that song is fairly overrated myself, but they certainly don't hate the song - although they don't exactly play it very often (and they play basically all their old "hits" on a semi-regular basis)

  8. #1223
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Lol, I don't understand the hate for bands releasing popular hits from self labelled "hardcore" fans.

    I think it's just an attempt to appear superior to everyone else.
    They say all comedy is rooted in truth and this makes the case beautifully.

  9. #1224
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    They say all comedy is rooted in truth and this makes the case beautifully.

  10. #1225
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    The Bends is by far their most accessible rock album. OK Computer is probably their most accessible "great" album, and definitely worth a look.

    In Rainbows is also a great place to start, accessible but incorporating many of their post-1999 influences that began to crop up on OK Computer but really exploded into life with Kid A.

    Do not listen to Kid A until you're ready for something seriously different. It will not be what you were expecting at all if you've been listening to Creep, The Bends et al.

    Lyrically, everything between and including OK Computer and Hail To The Thief are all pretty depressing. "I have seen too much, you haven't seen enough, you haven't seen it", "The panic, the vomit, the panic, the vomit, etc. Not emo though. Just very, very bleak at times. In Rainbows is much lighter, as is The King Of Limbs (Codex is unashamedly beautiful)

    Lotus Flower is pretty indicative of they are right now though. In the more restrained mode of In Rainbows but incorporating a lot of very recent electronic (esp. dubstep and its ilk) influences, with a heavy premium on rhythm.

    Really, when you talk about Radiohead, you're talking about three "stages" of their career with some overlaps, but which are significantly different. Pablo Honey - OK Computer was more or less straight rock, although some electronic influences began to creep into OK Computer. "Just" a good example of it. Then is the Kid A era which lasted until Hail To The Thief which is very, very electronic (although still sticking to fairly rock-like song structures). Hard to pick one specific example of the kind of song they wrote in this time as it varied so much. Then In Rainbows up til now, which is tighter, less expansive, much less bleak lyrically etc. This is fairly representative.

    Leads to a kind of horses-of-courses thing, where people have certain tastes. I'm a huge fan of the Kid A era, Brumby isn't.

    The video of Lotus Flower is one of the greatest things ever seen ftr. Thom Yorke's definition of "dancing" surely shared by absolutely no one else.
    haha, not saying you're in the pretentious category but it's really funny to me that amongst fans of some bands, there's apparently a progression you have to follow in order to fully understand a band. Find it hilarious people having conniptions at the horrific scene in their minds of someone picking up Kid A and deciding they don't like Radiohead (doesn't help when band members come out and bag their previous work).

    Perfect example of that mentality is with Dream Theater fans. I loved Images and Word, and fell head over heels with Awake. Then Falling Into Infinity came out and it was a massive change but I thought it was still awesome. All the hardcore fans flipped and demanded that DT return to 'their sound', Scenes From a Memory came out and, for the first time in my time listening to them, DT did something which just sounded like their own riffs and solos rehashed and I haven't really been interested since (have listened to every album after SFaM.....once).

    If you believe Mike Portnoy, Falling Into Infinity was the 'pop' album the band had to do to satisfy their label which has given the hardcore fans the green light to tell everyone to avoid it. It sucks because there's some good music on it and evidence they were actually progressing whereas everything since then has been more of a progression like the addition of new links in the Human Centipede, Portnoy at the front of the line and subsequent albums being fed his progressively recycled ****.

    No album 'just happens'. As a musician, if you can't stand behind what you've produced or if it's not the best you could do at the time, don't put the ****er out there (there was certainly no record company pressure with Pablo). As it stands, I'd stake large sums of money on that, despite the fans' protestations to the contrary, Radiohead loved Pablo Honey and Creep before it got put out. The way it's treated historically smells suspiciously like special pleading to me.

  11. #1226
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Spikey's Avatar
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    guys can we talk about SMiLE instead
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  12. #1227
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Haha just explaining why he'll find it strange when me and Brumby eventually come to blows over Kid A. Again. I'm cool with people not liking Kid A, my point is you can't look at one album they wrote and expect another to sound much like it. Even Kid A and Amnesiac have big differences and they were written at the same time!

    Having said that though, you wouldn't have immediately guessed that the band who wrote this piece of utter randomness and put it on a studio album were playing by the same rules as a few years before.
    Last edited by Spark; 12-11-2011 at 07:50 AM.

  13. #1228
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    See, that's the thing. The public generally isn't concerned with any back-story to an album in the first instance. No-one other than boffins, nerds and fans cares why one album sounds different to another. When they hear it, they judge it there and then. People hear something minimalistic and wonder how a band managed to spend so much time and money on two synths and a diatonic vocal line. They don't see the hours of debate and experimentation, the (probable) several album's worth of material which was recorded then shelved and the 50 vocoders tried before the perfect one was found for one song.

    Ignorance plays its part too. Visual artists, even for something minimalistic, you know they did it at least. When a band does something similar, considering the state of tech around the place, people assume the band did virtually nothing more than feed some random lines into a computer which pitch-corrected and tracked them into a song or that the producer spent weeks behind a Pro Tools workstation. True or not, that jars severely with music press desperately telling us how brilliant the album was and if you can't see why, you just don't get it.

    Really is interesting to notice, with the industry pushing bands to tour heavily what with recorded music being pretty much worthless, how many bands with killer live reps are making comebacks (Black Sabbath are doing a new album + tour, FFS). Live music is where the money is, no-one's making any serious money off album sales (major labels aside). Even more interesting is which bands are not playing live right now.
    Last edited by Top_Cat; 12-11-2011 at 08:37 AM.

  14. #1229
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixFire View Post
    Depends what sort of music you're into I guess. Since (I think) you're into rock music mainly, The Bends would be a great place to start.
    Yeah, that was my starting point for Radiohead, love the album still.

    Skip from OK Computer to In Rainbows, ITBT.

  15. #1230
    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    The Bends is gun, hard to imagine how anyone who considers themselves to be a fan of rock music wouldn't like it. Can understand why people would avoid their less accessible work mind you, which is more or less everything. Kid A ftw though.

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