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Thread: Music discussion thread

  1. #211
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    I think Doves have done well. I thought their debut was a cracker, and then they easily trumped it with The Last Broadcast and Some Cities, whilst not as good, is still a cracking listen.

    Love their use of Warren Zevon's Werewolves of London as the tune to one of their B sides on There Goes the Fear (I think)
    Yeah, good shout. Lost Souls was epic & TLB more so. On their b-side compo Hit The Ground Running stood out as the best thing on it, a real lost pop gem, so was suprised when the liner notes showed it to be a cover (or an "adaptation" as they call it). Don't know Zevron's stuff at all tho, tbh.

    I know you've said before you don't rate Elbow's debut, but I'm a fan & they too have subsequently gone on to better it. Although, ironically, I think their 2nd effort is their weakest so even they didn't totally avoid the second album syndrome.
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  2. #212
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    I find it's also very common for a band to peak a few albums into their career. Even a very good, consistent band usually has high and low points, and I find a lot of debuts are a bit unpolished, especially (obviously) if they involve younger, less experienced musicians, and a lot of bands peak out a few albums into their careers and then gradually run out of ideas. This still permits the "I prefer their earlier work" ****, but it's not necessarily a debut album thing.

    Bands like Radiohead and Nirvana are pretty prime examples IMO. I don't really rate their debuts much at all, but they did some very significant work 2-4 albums into their careers. Mind you, I still think Radiohead is putting out good material and I think Nirvana (or should I say, Kurt) probably would have improved as they pushed a few more musical boundaries later on, but certainly their debut records are not highlights. I'd say the majority of acts go along these lines anyway. The Decemberists are another favourite of mine that have the same pattern, and have more or less steadily imrpoved, and I'd even say that Nick Cave had his songwriting peak in the 88-94 sort of period, in the middle part of his career.

    BTW, Elbow's debut is their best effort IMO. I'd rate the most recent one next, but Asleep In The Back is superb. Agreed that the second album is the worst though.
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  3. #213
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Interesting point about consistent bands, actually. I think some artists who've maintained a high-standard of quality-control generally (Nick Cave, Elvis Costello, Neil Young & Bruce Springsteen would be examples off the top of my head) are almost off-putting to the uninitiated because their oeuvres are so vast one doesn't know where to dip one's toes in. I could name my fav albums from each (The Boatman's Call, Punch The Clock, Harvest & The Ghost of Tom Joad, respectively) but without any great confidence that any other fans would agree on even one call.

    I suppose with bands having a clear high water mark (even those who're never less than interesting like REM with Automatic For The People) it gives newbies an obvious starting point.

    & Leaders of the Free World is Elbow's finest hour IMHO.

  4. #214
    International Coach HeathDavisSpeed's Avatar
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    One that interests me a bit is the Charlatans. I've recently been listening to them again due to hearing that they'll be playing at the Christchurch "Southern Amp" festival this year.

    They've obviously put out a fair few albums now. I wouldn't say their first is their best (although The Only One I Know and Sproston Green are both top tunes but their second album (Between 10th & 11th, I think) was pretty poor; despite the obvious attractions of Tremelo Song and Weirdo.

    After another relatively weak album, they came back with their eponymous (4th) album with the classic Just When You're Thinking Things Over before making probably their most consistant album with Tellin' Stories (probably their best) and I was a pretty big fan of Us and Us Only at the time (although there was a couple of sizeable chunks of filler on that album)

    Wonderland was a reinvention too far for my liking though.
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  5. #215
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    One that interests me a bit is the Charlatans. I've recently been listening to them again due to hearing that they'll be playing at the Christchurch "Southern Amp" festival this year.

    They've obviously put out a fair few albums now. I wouldn't say their first is their best (although The Only One I Know and Sproston Green are both top tunes but their second album (Between 10th & 11th, I think) was pretty poor; despite the obvious attractions of Tremelo Song and Weirdo.

    After another relatively weak album, they came back with their eponymous (4th) album with the classic Just When You're Thinking Things Over before making probably their most consistant album with Tellin' Stories (probably their best) and I was a pretty big fan of Us and Us Only at the time (although there was a couple of sizeable chunks of filler on that album)

    Wonderland was a reinvention too far for my liking though.
    They've had an interesting career trajectory. Broke big with the Madchester/baggy craze in the late 80s/v early 90s, had a real lull until they came back with their self-titled album (their original keybaord player was killed around then, so don't know if that was a catalyst for their creative second wind), now seem to be sort of marking time commercially, but still producing surprisingly inspired material for a band nearly into their third decade of music. I picked up the unimaginatively titled The Charlatans Collection from Tesco for 3 a couple of months ago which compiles stuff from their last 4 albums (mainly 'cos it was cheap), none of which had really registered on my radar, but which is really pretty cock-on. You're So Pretty - We're So Pretty off Wonderland is a bit of a belter.

    Probably due a revival soon.

  6. #216
    International Coach HeathDavisSpeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Probably due a revival soon.
    Its tempting to go to the music festival in Christchurch to see them. Sadly, the only other decent band that are playing seems to be the Dandy Warhols and I no longer feel quite so Bohemian like them when Bohemian appears to be selling your tunes to the highest bidder so that people get absolutely, totally fed up with them and want to ram the tune back up your dirty fat jacksie.

    Anyway, changed the subject there somewhat I feel....

    The Bluetones were another prime example of a poor second album (relative to their first). If... is still a top tune, but it doesn't stop Return to the Last Chance Saloon from being their worst album (Luxembourg runs it close). Their latest album was a good'un though.

  7. #217
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    Its tempting to go to the music festival in Christchurch to see them. Sadly, the only other decent band that are playing seems to be the Dandy Warhols and I no longer feel quite so Bohemian like them when Bohemian appears to be selling your tunes to the highest bidder so that people get absolutely, totally fed up with them and want to ram the tune back up your dirty fat jacksie.

    Anyway, changed the subject there somewhat I feel....

    The Bluetones were another prime example of a poor second album (relative to their first). If... is still a top tune, but it doesn't stop Return to the Last Chance Saloon from being their worst album (Luxembourg runs it close). Their latest album was a good'un though.
    Ha, I was listening to their singles collection (called The Singles, I wonder if they have the same creative director as The Charlatans?) walking to work on Friday. I only own their first two albums proper, but would agree that Expecting To Fly (named after a Neil Young song, trivia fans) is easily the better of the two. Sort of how one might've hoped The Stone Roses 2nd album might've sounded had things turned out different. Not to dismiss them as mere copyists tho. Morris a better lyricist than Brown for my money. Better singer too, but that almost borders onto "damning with faint praise".

  8. #218
    International Coach HeathDavisSpeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Better singer too, but that almost borders onto "damning with faint praise".
    Haha...

    He's a better dancer than Bez, though not as good with the maracas!

    I've met and chatted with Mark Morris a few times. He's a bloody funny guy. I remember chatting to him about Gilbert O'Sullivan for some bizarre reason and that James Dean Bradfield had actually murdered Richie Edwards and turned him into pies which he had then decided to devour himself. Probably gave a few pies to Sean Moore though in reality.

    A recent EP (Serenity Now EP) by the Bluetones is pretty good, and also quite eclectic. Well worth a listen if you can find it on You Tube. My Neighbour's House from their last LP is the best song they've released in years.

  9. #219
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    I just got Powderfinger - iTunes Live from Sydney - EP and Arctic Monkeys - Brainstorm EP

    got a 10dollar prepaid visa so thought I would use it on itunes. gun ep's both of them

    Really would like to see powderfinger live.
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  10. #220
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Sort of following on from the Oasis discussion that precedes this post, but mainly because I'm currently listening to Because Of The Times by Kings Of Leon, I thought I'd throw this thought out there. There seems to be an awful lot of groups who hit the ground running with inspired debut albums & then really struggle to live up to this early promise. Definitely Maybe is (MHO, obv) comfortably the best Oasis album (and it's probably because it caught me at just the right time that I still give them more time of day than a lot on CW seem to) & since then each of their subsequent releases has been compared to it & found wanting in said comparison. Even Don't Believe The Truth (a big return to form) was generally hailed as their best since... yadda, yadda.

    Making one's best album early on isn't necessarily a new phenomenon, I'd say none of Nick Drake, Van Morrison (taking Astral Weeks as his debut proper) & The Velvet Underground surpassed their maiden releases, but their subsequent output wasn't entirely overshadowed by them, as is the case with Kings Of Leon. Youth And Young Manhood was one of those albums that makes one sit up & take notice, but BOTT & Aha Shake Heartbreak, whilst ok, pale by comparison.

    Two great bands of my youth arguably had their demise hastened by great debuts; The Stone Roses dissolved into litigation & cocaine after their eponymous opener and their belated follow-up was a crushing disappointment; whilst The La's never even made a sequel to their self-titled first effort. Although, admittedly, Lee Mavers's smack habit probably didn't help either. On a smaller scale many other bands of recent vintage have made decent debuts (The Coral, The Futureheads, The Thrills & The Fratellis off the top of my head) but have never quite lived up to this early promise.

    Ok, I've got to the fourth paragraph & am now panicking because I'm not sure where I'm going with this. I suppose, to attempt to turn it into a point of discussion rather than a somewhat long-winded lecture by a slightly embittered ageing music snob who begins every conversation with "Well, obviously I preferred their earlier work...", I'll ask for examples of other groups who've fallen foul of the sophomore slump & those who've avoided this curse, especially those who've made bang-up debuts and then bettered them.

    Or am I just utterly wrong & is Be Here Now actually Oasis' magnum opus?
    I think you're on the money, on the most part. I'd say a lot of people prefer Morning Glory to Definitely Maybe - I don't, and I don't know many who love oasis like I do that prefer any other album to the first.

    As a lot of you may know, I love Guns N' Roses to death. I absolutely love the UYI albums, but the rawness and feel to Appetite for Destruction could never be captured in an album that wasn't made by a hungry, unsigned band.

    I think it's mainly bands that want to be in your face playing aggressive rock music that tend to peak early on. The bands that maybe cater more towards the creative/thoughtful side (as Fuller said, Radiohead, and also blur) perhaps get better as they go on.
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  11. #221
    cpr
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    With ya on Oasis, Definately Maybe is clearly there best album, followed by Bere Here Now for me (sorry). Still cant stand Morning Glory, purely due to Champagne Supanova, must say last few albums havent really been given much listen by me

    Not with ya on GnR though, Appettite was raw, and Rocket Queen is a tune and a half, but much prefer UYI II over anything else they did.
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  12. #222
    RTDAS pasag's Avatar
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    Nah Appetite is far superior IMO. Virtually no filler as oppose to UYI. If you took out the cream from the latter and made it one album it would surpass Appetite perhaps.
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  13. #223
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    UYI I had too much filler, felt only Get In The Ring, possibly Shotgun Blues and of course My World wern't too good on II. Some songs on appetite (Its So Easy, Anything Goes, Out To Get Me, Think About You) just dont cut it for me.

  14. #224
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Matteh's Avatar
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    Belle and Sebastian - If You're Feeling Sinister is comfortably better than Tigermilk.

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  15. #225
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpr View Post
    With ya on Oasis, Definately Maybe is clearly there best album, followed by Bere Here Now for me (sorry). Still cant stand Morning Glory, purely due to Champagne Supanova, must say last few albums havent really been given much listen by me

    Not with ya on GnR though, Appettite was raw, and Rocket Queen is a tune and a half, but much prefer UYI II over anything else they did.
    Quote Originally Posted by pasag View Post
    Nah Appetite is far superior IMO. Virtually no filler as oppose to UYI. If you took out the cream from the latter and made it one album it would surpass Appetite perhaps.
    Well I worded my post carefully; I don't really prefer any of the three albums over another, but the first one is more ballsy, more aggressive, rawer and sounds tighter. Some of the songs on the UYI set are absolute masterpieces though, Coma, Estranged, Locomotive, Dead Horse, Don't Damn Me, Civil War, You Could Be Mine (this is why I like Axl best as a musician out of the band, because I think he's the best songwriter, shame he's a tit)...I love those albums to death (like you, I prefer II) but can see why generally AFD is preferred, and as such can see why Brumby's argument holds weight. If that makes sense.



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