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View Poll Results: Is murder always wrong

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  • yes

    16 69.57%
  • no

    7 30.43%
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Thread: Is murder always wrong?

  1. #1
    International Captain cover drive man's Avatar
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    Is murder always wrong?

    Now I know society frowns on murderers but is it always wrong to take a life?
    Everyone wants to change the world, noone wants to change himself.

    -Tolstoy

  2. #2
    Hall of Fame Member Jamee999's Avatar
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    Only if they're about to kill someone else/you, but then it's not really murder.
    Or something.

    RIP Fardin Qayyumi (AKA "cricket player"; "Bob"), 1/11/1990 - 15/4/2006

  3. #3
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamee999 View Post
    Only if they're about to kill someone else/you, but then it's not really murder.
    It's only wrong if they're about to kill someone?

    So it's okay if they are just going about their business?
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  4. #4
    Hall of Fame Member Jamee999's Avatar
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    You know what I mean. That's the time where it's not wrong .


  5. #5
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    I think it's wrong to take a human life unless they irritate one in some way.

    I love the mental imagine of society frowning on murderers. "Frowning" suggests mild disapprovement to me.

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  6. #6
    Hall of Fame Member Jamee999's Avatar
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    Yeah.

    "You've not shot ANOTHER one have you? No supper for you tonight!"

  7. #7
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    I agree with Jamee btw, murder is wrong unless in self-defence or if the victim's football team have beaten yours aided by a dodgy refereeing decision.

  8. #8
    cpr
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    Ah, the old argument of 'The Greater Good'

    Firstly, self defence, if its a sheer choice between you or them, I can well understand taking the other life to preserve your own if that person has deliberately endangered yours.

    However, Is it right to kill someone if they are about to murder someone else? As humans, who can only see whats in front of them, can we honestly judge an entire context of such a short exchange? Can we judge accurately that the person with the gun is bad and the person about to be shot is good? Who knows the history between the two, who's abused who, who's provoked what, is the murderer actually acting in self defence? Or are they under the influence of something out of their control, eg drink been spiked, been administered the wrong medication.... How can we accurately judge that person deserves to die.... What about under the influence of emotions. If the guy about to kill someone is actually acting in revenge, as his target murdered their wife, then who's the bad guy?

    IMO, man shouldn't sentance death on another unless the death sentance is over himself if he doesnt.


    Reminds me of a question we faced in school years back.

    2 men are in a river, about to drown. Both are at deaths door, and your on the bank with 1 lifebelt only. You only have time to save one, the other will die.

    The first is a famous scientist, he has been in the news with his remarkable research that will cure AIDS, he is days away from publishing his work, yet here he is, and ALL (and i mean ALL) his work on the subject is in his briefcase he's holding above his head (for those smartarses, he's handcuffed it to himself for fear of it being stolen.......)

    The second is your only son. He's 18, about to go to university. He's got his whole life ahead of him, he is the most important thing in your life (your wife has passed on, you had testicular cancer a few years back which had them both removed, so you'll never be able to have anymore kids).


    Who do you save?
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  9. #9
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    I can roughly define murder

    "In common law jurisdictions, murder has two elements or parts:

    1. the act (actus reus) of killing a person
    2. the state of mind (mens rea) of intentional, purposeful, malicious, premeditated, and/or wanton."


    Much more difficult to define wrong though. What does wrong mean? wrong for who?

    Id agree that murder should always be illegal but that doesnt mean that if you did unspeakable things to my family that as a husband and father the correct thing for me wouldnt be to seek murderous retribution.

    The definition, context and perspective of 'wrong' is the debate.

    What may be right for the individual may be wrong for wider society.
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  10. #10
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    I can roughly define murder

    "In common law jurisdictions, murder has two elements or parts:

    1. the act (actus reus) of killing a person
    2. the state of mind (mens rea) of intentional, purposeful, malicious, premeditated, and/or wanton."


    Much more difficult to define wrong though. What does wrong mean? wrong for who?

    Id agree that murder should always be illegal but that doesnt mean that if you did unspeakable things to my family that as a husband and father the correct thing for me wouldnt be to seek murderous retribution.

    The definition, context and perspective of 'wrong' is the debate.

    What may be right for the individual may be wrong for wider society.

    Aye, law does not equal morality and morality is subjective

  11. #11
    International Coach PhoenixFire's Avatar
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    Muder is always wrong.

    Killing someone is nearly always wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    1) Had double pneumonia as a kid, as did my twin sis. Doctors told my parents to pray that we lived through the night. Dad said **** off, I'm an atheist, you ****s better save my kids, etc. Then prayed anyway.

  12. #12
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpr View Post
    Ah, the old argument of 'The Greater Good'

    Firstly, self defence, if its a sheer choice between you or them, I can well understand taking the other life to preserve your own if that person has deliberately endangered yours.

    However, Is it right to kill someone if they are about to murder someone else? As humans, who can only see whats in front of them, can we honestly judge an entire context of such a short exchange? Can we judge accurately that the person with the gun is bad and the person about to be shot is good? Who knows the history between the two, who's abused who, who's provoked what, is the murderer actually acting in self defence? Or are they under the influence of something out of their control, eg drink been spiked, been administered the wrong medication.... How can we accurately judge that person deserves to die.... What about under the influence of emotions. If the guy about to kill someone is actually acting in revenge, as his target murdered their wife, then who's the bad guy?

    IMO, man shouldn't sentance death on another unless the death sentance is over himself if he doesnt.


    Reminds me of a question we faced in school years back.

    2 men are in a river, about to drown. Both are at deaths door, and your on the bank with 1 lifebelt only. You only have time to save one, the other will die.

    The first is a famous scientist, he has been in the news with his remarkable research that will cure AIDS, he is days away from publishing his work, yet here he is, and ALL (and i mean ALL) his work on the subject is in his briefcase he's holding above his head (for those smartarses, he's handcuffed it to himself for fear of it being stolen.......)

    The second is your only son. He's 18, about to go to university. He's got his whole life ahead of him, he is the most important thing in your life (your wife has passed on, you had testicular cancer a few years back which had them both removed, so you'll never be able to have anymore kids).


    Who do you save?
    An impossible and stupidly, absurdly cruel question that no-one should ever have to face, and hopefully no-one ever will.
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  13. #13
    International Coach PhoenixFire's Avatar
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    I think I'd go for family every time tbh.

  14. #14
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    I don't see how anyone could possibly know what they'd do, it's about the worst situation anyone could ever be put in TBH. As I say - no-one deserves to be. Think I'd sooner throw myself in too than have to make the choice, really. Maybe throw the lifeline to the scientist and jump in with my son.

  15. #15
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    I think instinct would make most people save their children. We can be selfless for lots of things but not when it comes to our kids IMO

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