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Thread: US politics thread

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    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    US politics thread

    So what are your thoughts on the upcoming primaries and the election next year? I am not sure who I will support yet, but certainly it won't be the Clinton-Obama-Edwards triumvirate.

    How about everyone else?
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    So you tell me you are pro Bush, Manan. Explain
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    Hall of Fame Member steds's Avatar
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    Both big fans of shooting things, I hear.

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    thought it was more Dick Cheney than Bush that enjoyed shooting things......
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpr View Post
    thought it was more Dick Cheney than Bush that enjoyed shooting things......
    Both are IIRC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by steds View Post
    Both big fans of shooting things, I hear.
    If popular music has taught me anything, it's that all Americans like shooting things.

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Matteh's Avatar
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    Well i clearly wouldn't vote Republican.
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    Global Moderator nightprowler10's Avatar
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    I honestly can't see myself voting for any of the candidates so far. I had thought about Obama but its hard to take him seriously sometimes.

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    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Well, I wouldn't call myself Pro-Bush. However, he has been villified too much for my liking, and most of the attacks are ad hominem attacks on his intelligence (which is not considerable) rather than specific policy.

    I would still vote for one of the republicans over the democrats, though ideally I'd vote libertarian. None of them have a plan for Iraq, and I can't get behind the socialist (Hilary) policy on things like healthcare.

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    Global Moderator Fusion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    Well, I wouldn't call myself Pro-Bush. However, he has been villified too much for my liking, and most of the attacks are ad hominem attacks on his intelligence (which is not considerable) rather than specific policy.

    I would still vote for one of the republicans over the democrats, though ideally I'd vote libertarian. None of them have a plan for Iraq, and I can't get behind the socialist (Hilary) policy on things like healthcare.
    For the sake of being devil's advocate, what plan(s) do the Republicans offer for Iraq other than "stay the course"?

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    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion View Post
    For the sake of being devil's advocate, what plan(s) do the Republicans offer for Iraq other than "stay the course"?
    None. And that's why I'd go libertarian. In any case, though a strategy change might be necessary, Dennis Kucinich is quite mad if he thinks you can move out 130,000 people, and all the equipment in a month, which he keeps sprouting. I've never been entirely comfortable with the democrats and their socialist agenda at home, and when you couple that with their 'Insert head into sand' foreign policy agenda - I can't see myself voting that way.

    They make Guantanamo Bay into some sort of a gulag and their idea of foreign policy is asking people to be nice - it's quite dire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    and when you couple that with their 'Insert head into sand' foreign policy agenda - I can't see myself voting that way.
    as opposed to the bash your head in if you disagree with us foreign policy agenda...yeah that makes more sense...

    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    They make Guantanamo Bay into some sort of a gulag and their idea of foreign policy is asking people to be nice - it's quite dire.
    sure, shooting them would be much preferable, right?

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    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anil View Post
    as opposed to the bash your head in if you disagree with us foreign policy agenda...yeah that makes more sense...
    I concede that Bush's diplomatic skills are hardly ideal, but it is still miles better than anything the democrats would do - which would undoubtedly involve the most useless organization known to man (UN).

    Quote Originally Posted by Anil View Post
    sure, shooting them would be much preferable, right?
    It would be preferable, and certainly more convenient but they would not exactly be useful in terms of information that you may be able to gain. In any case, keeping them indefinitely also does more harm than good so I can understand the point - but I am simply asking for a little perspective when dealing with the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    I concede that Bush's diplomatic skills are hardly ideal, but it is still miles better than anything the democrats would do - which would undoubtedly involve the most useless organization known to man (UN).
    right...which is why the he is left with almost no ally of note...

    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    It would be preferable, and certainly more convenient but they would not exactly be useful in terms of information that you may be able to gain. In any case, keeping them indefinitely also does more harm than good so I can understand the point - but I am simply asking for a little perspective when dealing with the situation.
    what is the perspective that would make sense for you in this particular scenario...lots of people kept incarcerated and tortured without following any due process and with absolutely no regard for their civil rights...

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    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anil View Post
    right...which is why the he is left with almost no ally of note...
    That is primarily due to his deficient diplomatic skills, and the inane decision to go into Iraq when it was completely unnecessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anil View Post
    what is the perspective that would make sense for you in this particular scenario...lots of people kept incarcerated and tortured without following any due process and with absolutely no regard for their civil rights...
    Disagree with the bolded parts. First, there is no mass deportation into US military prisons - it is a relatively small group of people, targeted specifically or picked up. I am not sure if we are talking about the CIA prisons or Guantanamo Bay - but I'm willing to defend either/both (within reason).

    Secondly, the efficacy of torture is highly suspect and I don't believe anything of that sort is occurring. There is psychological pressure certainly, and perhaps certain things such as water boarding that is pushing the line, but putting a guy in constant pain does not yield any valuable results - you generally hear what you want to hear.

    As for the civil rights, I would disagree with putting any US citizen in those camps as we have explicit rights defined for us. As for others, the US judicial system is neither designed nor equipped to heal with an influx of cases brought about by POWs. The rights in the constitution do not apply to them. I am not sure whose civil rights you are talking about?

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