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Thread: US politics thread

  1. #16
    Cricketer Of The Year Mr Casson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    I concede that Bush's diplomatic skills are hardly ideal, but it is still miles better than anything the democrats would do - which would undoubtedly involve the most useless organization known to man (UN).
    That's just plain old harsh when you've got the BCCI, the ASEAN and the ALP. The UN isn't all that bad anyway; it's mainly the Security Council that is quite famously the most disjoined branch (and not without good reason).
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anil View Post
    what is the perspective that would make sense for you in this particular scenario...lots of people kept incarcerated and tortured without following any due process and with absolutely no regard for their civil rights...
    Technically speaking the US is not obliged to respect their civil rights, because they have none. They are non-US citizens defined as unlawful combatants under international law.

  3. #18
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    Interesting points on US foreign policy. Firstly saying the democrats have a bury head in sand approach, i dont think that rings true. Clinton was quite upfront with Kosovo and at times with Iraq. Historical context cant be used, as the world has changed so much its virtually impossible to take a laissez faire attitude (which incidently was the old Republican line going back). American companies are so multi national, as indeed are American citizens, plus the growth of globally shrinking technology such as the internet makes it very difficult to ignore far off situations if the populace feel its in their interests to act. One saving grace i suppose is the general populations blase approach to foreign policy.

    Secondly, Guantanamo etc. Personally i disagree with the 'unlawful combatants' line. Obviously the Geneva convention covers prisoners of war. This dates back nigh on 60 years, when war was between nations (the first real guerilla warfare was in its infancy, in Vietnam, which was seen as nothing more than a civil war at the time, not anything outside the nation boundary). It has no concept of modern warfare, and to use it to count people as non lawful combatants is simply testicles. Think its absolutely disgusting. Didnt argue with the war in Iraq (end of the day Saddam was a dictator who persicuted his own people and caused untold numbers of deaths through murder and general suffering), but this arrogance is shocking.

    As for torture. Meh. Its war. You dont ask the enemy to nicely put down the gun and not blow up our city. He wont. You shoot him in the head. Likewise you dont ask mr prisoner to kindly indulge all his secrets. If the infomation is critical, he must be made to talk. Lives most probably depend on how quick its found out. Obviously theres going too far, and sadistic generals will do it for giggles, but the theory of torture for infomation is in my eyes justifyable (hey, human rights watch. They have the right not to be tortured. Just tell all first and you wont be. Cant say fairer than that)
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  4. #19
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Matteh's Avatar
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    Laissez Faire - Economics, not anything to do with foreign policy.
    First real guerilla - Spain easily.
    Quote Originally Posted by cpr View Post
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  5. #20
    123/5 Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anil View Post
    as opposed to the bash your head in if you disagree with us foreign policy agenda...yeah that makes more sense...

    sure, shooting them would be much preferable, right?
    If it works then sure, why not.

    And yes shooting terrorists sounds like a great idea.

    In all seriousness, instead of invading random countries Bush should concentrate on finding Osama. I'd quite like him to pull out of Iraq because I'm tired of paying a small fortune for petrol and seeing "Iraq going no where" news headlines. Next time you invade somewhere at least do it properly FFS.

    And if the lefties think asking Iran to be nice will work and they get into office I'm building a bomb shelter. If Bush starts mobilising troops against Iran I'm building a bigger bomb shelter.
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  6. #21
    Not Terrible Athlai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    If it works then sure, why not.

    And yes shooting terrorists sounds like a great idea.

    In all seriousness, instead of invading random countries Bush should concentrate on finding Osama. I'd quite like him to pull out of Iraq because I'm tired of paying a small fortune for petrol and seeing "Iraq going no where" news headlines. Next time you invade somewhere at least do it properly FFS.

    And if the lefties think asking Iran to be nice will work and they get into office I'm building a bomb shelter. If Bush starts mobilising troops against Iran I'm building a bigger bomb shelter.


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  7. #22
    123/5 Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post


    Worlds a complicated place and there's not going to be any easy answers IMO.
    I know. Though I do know one sure thing. Politics suck.

  8. #23
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    I'm just glad it won't be Bush anymore...
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  9. #24
    cpr
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matteh View Post
    Laissez Faire - Economics, not anything to do with foreign policy.
    First real guerilla - Spain easily.
    Yes
    and hmm, yes

    Cold (sober) light of day, i was wrong. Confused laissez faire with isolationism, which was earlier, and about foreign policy.

    And forgot about Spain. always do. Makes modules on spanish politics hard.

  10. #25
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    Well, I wouldn't call myself Pro-Bush. However, he has been villified too much for my liking, and most of the attacks are ad hominem attacks on his intelligence (which is not considerable) rather than specific policy.
    Hasnt had half the criticism he has deserved. Whether it be for lack of interviews and transparancy to campaign behavior to huge spending that almost bankrupts the country whilst there is nothing to show or it. There are actually too many things to criticise his actions on and therefore it can get boring. Dosnt help that many of the critics are annoying whiney types that people dont want to listen to though.

    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    I concede that Bush's diplomatic skills are hardly ideal, but it is still miles better than anything the democrats would do - which would undoubtedly involve the most useless organization known to man (UN).
    Nah

    Quote Originally Posted by cpr View Post
    (the first real guerilla warfare was in its infancy, in Vietnam, which was seen as nothing more than a civil war at the time, not anything outside the nation boundary)
    Napoleonic Wars


    Back on topic. Im not a particular fan of either main party. Will end up in all likelyhood voting Democrat (thats if I can be bothered to vote)
    Last edited by Goughy; 03-11-2007 at 09:39 AM.
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  11. #26
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    Hasnt had half the criticism he has deserved. Whether it be for lack of interviews and transparancy to campaign behavior to huge spending that almost bankrupts the country whilst there is nothing to show or it. There are actually too many things to criticise his actions on and therefore it can get boring. Dosnt help that many of the critics are annoying whiney types that people dont want to listen to though.
    I agree that campaign financing is a big issue, but democrats are not far behind republicans in spending. I do agree that there needs to be a hard cap on it like in the UK.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    Back on topic. Im not a particular fan of either main party. Will end up in all likelyhood voting Democrat (thats if I can be bothered to vote)
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  12. #27
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    I agree that campaign financing is a big issue, but democrats are not far behind republicans in spending. I do agree that there needs to be a hard cap on it like in the UK.
    Not just financing (though tha is a big issue). The way he and his team did a dirty number on McCain and tried to make him look a coward when he has a proud record of serving his country. It was some of the most sickening stuff I have seen and that is Republican on Republican crime

    The way his campaigns have been run have been nothing short of shocking. Many give a nod to the dirty side but few if any embrace it like team Bush has done.

    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    I knew you lived in the US, but didn't know you were a citizen.
    Aye

  13. #28
    Not Terrible Athlai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    Napoleonic Wars
    Not to mention many others... Guerrilla warfare may have been perfected in Vietnam but by no means did it begin there. Look at World War 2, the British-Indian contingents fighting the Japanese for example.

  14. #29
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Matteh's Avatar
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    Tito's partisans is probably a better WW2 example.

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    The Maori were pretty good at guerilla warfare IIRC.
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