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Thread: Poker

  1. #1246
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  2. #1247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Days of Grace View Post
    One thing that has been bothering me recently is the continuation bet. If you take the lead in position before the flop but then miss it completely, do you always still bet the flop if everyone checks to you? If they then just call your bet, do you then bet again on the turn if they check again to you and you still have nothing?

    I have lost some money on that.
    Depends on the read you have of those around you. Are they likely to put down the 2nd highest pair (if they hit it) because you're betting aggressively? Are they the type to try to see more cards and take a punt? Do they themselves bluff aggressively?

  3. #1248
    International Regular Bobisback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Days of Grace View Post
    One thing that has been bothering me recently is the continuation bet. If you take the lead in position before the flop but then miss it completely, do you always still bet the flop if everyone checks to you? If they then just call your bet, do you then bet again on the turn if they check again to you and you still have nothing?

    I have lost some money on that.
    I always put in a continuation bet. If you raise preflop you should have a premium hand and you have to assume that any one else in the hand does too. Even if you have say AK and the flop misses, no draws but a Q or a J you should still throw out a continuation. If they go over the choice is (Usually) easy. If they just call then you have to judge their hand based on their body language and knowledge from what they have played in previous hands.

    With just a smooth call on the flop then you can get in a bit of trouble on the turn. If you think they're chasing a draw or able to lay down top pair then fire again, if they look strong its probably wise to just concede the hand and check.

    Though then it depends on your chip stack.

    Yeah, continuation bets are hard, and even harder against poor opponents.
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  4. #1249
    International Vice-Captain Days of Grace's Avatar
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    Ok, cheers for that.

    I have been playing zynga poker on my i-phone. Normally get quite far into tourmaments and sometimes win a few.

    My real problem is playing live against about 4 other guys in short-handed games. Aggressive betting and bluffing. You name it. I hate it when they bully me off a hand. I guess I just need to be brave and go all-in on what I think is the best hand if I am forced to. I try to play tight before the flop but it is difficult to know how much looser you should be in short-handed games.
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  5. #1250
    International Regular Bobisback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Days of Grace View Post
    Ok, cheers for that.

    I have been playing zynga poker on my i-phone. Normally get quite far into tourmaments and sometimes win a few.

    My real problem is playing live against about 4 other guys in short-handed games. Aggressive betting and bluffing. You name it. I hate it when they bully me off a hand. I guess I just need to be brave and go all-in on what I think is the best hand if I am forced to. I try to play tight before the flop but it is difficult to know how much looser you should be in short-handed games.
    Easy way for them to not bully you out of a hand is be the aggressor. If they keep doing it move back at them with decent hands and they wont do it as often.

  6. #1251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobisback View Post
    Yeah, continuation bets are hard, and even harder against poor opponents.
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  7. #1252
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    Quote Originally Posted by dontcloseyoureyes View Post
    This.
    Honestly, I would say its one of the main reasons I dont play club poker anymore.

    I will raise, get a couple of callers. Bet the pot on the flop get one caller. Put them on a hand in the mid to weak range. Turn comes with me thinking their hand hasnt changed. I bet out again with a call. At this point put them on like a mid pair with a draw. Draw misses on the river I bet enough to put them all in and they call. I assume my read was well off and then they flip over the exact hand I put them on.

    I know the easy way to not lose like that is not get into that situation, but I enjoy to play like that. I enjoy trying to put people on hands, and I enjoy trying to push them off the better hand. When you're playing people who have no idea what a strong hand is it just loses all the fun.

  8. #1253
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    It's strange how badly people can struggle with the absolute worst players. It's mostly just a patience thing. Imo the best way to maintain sanity vs. calling stations is to avoid sitting on their right.

    On continuation betting, as standard you shouldn't bother at all against more than one player and give up the turn if you don't have anything. There are only a handful of exceptions. In theory it changes with reads but in my experience you don't meet very many players that frequently call the flop and fold a brick turn.
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  9. #1254
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    The opportunity to continuation bet comes up so often and in such a variety of situations that there is no hard and fast advice. The following examples are an attempt to show how the differing circumstances change things, though these examples are not completely cut and dry.

    Suppose you open UTG and get one call from the BB, flop comes A73 rainbow, against most villains cbetting 100% won't be a bad idea. This is because this is such a good board for your range vs his range that even if he is aware that you are cbetting 100%, its very hard for him to do anything about it. Conversely, if you open the button and get a call from the BB and see a Q98 two-tone flop, cbetting 100% against anyone good will end badly, and will also end badly against anyone bad albeit for differing reasons. It's also important when confronted with a board that you'll cbet a relatively low % to check back some stronger made hands as well as draws so that villain can't lead any turn with impunity. This is obviously most important vs someone competent.

    The main key is that instead of auto-piloting and cbetting for the sake of cbetting, you should be thinking about the range of hands your opponent has and what they will do with all of those hands, not only now but also on future streets. This clearly isn't an exact science but you can improve the accuracy of your hand-reading and inferring what your opponent will do with their range by not only simply profiling the opponent, but if the opponent is competent, also thinking about how he perceives you, and also how he thinks you perceive him. Best ways to get better at this are to discuss poker with good players, and obviously also to put in a lot of hands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut
    On continuation betting, as standard you shouldn't bother at all against more than one player and give up the turn if you don't have anything. There are only a handful of exceptions. In theory it changes with reads but in my experience you don't meet very many players that frequently call the flop and fold a brick turn.
    This is true but not necessarily an argument against barrelling brick turns. I've not seen many non-fish whose fold to river cbet stat isn't an exploitably high %, though as with flop cbetting, there are lots of different situations and not all of them are good.
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  10. #1255
    International Vice-Captain Days of Grace's Avatar
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    Thanks for that, Tom Halsey.

    Made a small profit last Sunday in a live SH NL game, and will have another live game tonight.

    Last Sunday, we had 5 players, which is my comfort zone, but tonight there will only be 4 players, so should I be looking to loosen up a bit more, or stick to my normal game plan pre-flop? Even when you're UTG, you're still one from the dealer.

    I am having trouble with Ace-low. In a 4 player game, is it worth a call, or even a raise?

    Basically, I want to know how other posters adjust themselves to the short-handed game.

    The way I see it, pocket pairs can win you a lot of money in a short-handed game if they hit a set.
    But, I should also call/raise with suited connectors against only 4 players?

  11. #1256
    International Vice-Captain Days of Grace's Avatar
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    Finished with 10000 yen last night after buying in for 5000.

    Most of that came on one hand with AKs, and the flop comes two kings and another card, heads-up. He raises, I re-raise, he goes all-in and I follow him. He shows a King with a lower kicker. Sweet. First time Ace King ever paid me off.

    Was a five-player table and the guy I beat jokingly accused me of being a "nit" for the rest of the night, but what do I care? I had his chips.

  12. #1257
    Quote Originally Posted by Days of Grace View Post
    Thanks for that, Tom Halsey.

    Made a small profit last Sunday in a live SH NL game, and will have another live game tonight.

    Last Sunday, we had 5 players, which is my comfort zone, but tonight there will only be 4 players, so should I be looking to loosen up a bit more, or stick to my normal game plan pre-flop? Even when you're UTG, you're still one from the dealer.

    I am having trouble with Ace-low. In a 4 player game, is it worth a call, or even a raise?

    Basically, I want to know how other posters adjust themselves to the short-handed game.

    The way I see it, pocket pairs can win you a lot of money in a short-handed game if they hit a set.
    But, I should also call/raise with suited connectors against only 4 players?
    Ace-low is more of a raising hand than a calling hand I think. If you're calling you're much more likely to be up against the sorts of hands that will dominate it - and you're not really getting much information either. Also it doesn't match up particularly well against any hand, so you get much better equity when you can win pots uncontested. I do think ace-low is difficult to play though, so you'd be more likely to play it when you've a good read of your opponents.
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  13. #1258
    International Vice-Captain Days of Grace's Avatar
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    Last night was up and down, and finally, I crashed to earth with a thud.

    First, lost my first buy-in of 5000 with a stupid all-in with top pair when the guy had already raised me with two-pair.

    Played more solidly for the next 5000 buy-in and more than doubled it when I hit a ace-high flush draw.

    Then, at 10pm, I announced that it was my last hand of the night. I was one from the dealer in a four player game so for the hell of it, I stradled. The dealer, who was down and playing like a maniac (he's already a calling station) decided to put in 1000 in chips blindly. We are playing 25-50 blinds.

    I decided to myself that there was no way I was calling that massive bet except with a premium hand. The other two folded, and I look down and see AQo. I call.

    The flop comes Q52 rainbow. I bet 3000 into a 2000 pot. He calls it. The next card is a 4.


    What would you do here? And would you have raised pre-flop with AQ?

  14. #1259
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    What are yours and his stack sizes? Probably just shove pre unless you're both more than 10k deep in which case just raise.

    As played, check the flop (and if you do bet, bet far smaller), and as played on the turn it's difficult to say unless we know stack sizes, so the only thing I can say really is that whatever you do make sure it doesn't include folding.

  15. #1260
    International Vice-Captain Days of Grace's Avatar
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    I had about 10K and he probably had about the same.

    Why would I just check the flop?

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