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Thread: Police probe sheik's DVDs

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    World Traveller Craig's Avatar
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    Police probe sheik's DVDs

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21074839-2,00.html

    Personally the guy is an idiot and the sooner people like him are out of power or in the position of influence. It's people like him who inflame hate in this world.

    Although I would imagine Gelman would quite pissed (or maybe he is not I don't know, I'm not him) that his faith has been they are a bunch of 'pigs'.
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    Cricketer Of The Year Robertinho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21074839-2,00.html

    Personally the guy is an idiot and the sooner people like him are out of power or in the position of influence. It's people like him who inflame hate in this world.

    Although I would imagine Gelman would quite pissed (or maybe he is not I don't know, I'm not him) that his faith has been they are a bunch of 'pigs'.


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    RTDAS pasag's Avatar
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    Actually I'm more concered about the massive negative image and impact on the wider Muslim community in Australia that these news stories produce, all from the idiotic words of one person.
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    World Traveller Craig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robertinho View Post


    Are you pissed, Craigos?
    Well clearly


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    International Captain Buddhmaster's Avatar
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    The sheik's right about the Gelmans, but his people are even worse.

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    Wow, anti-semitism, how original.
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    Global Moderator Fusion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pasag View Post
    Actually I'm more concered about the massive negative image and impact on the wider Muslim community in Australia that these news stories produce, all from the idiotic words of one person.
    Therein lies the tragedy doesn't it? This guy is a massive lunatic and should be arrested for inciting violence. However, he does bigger damage to the already tarnished reputation of Muslims world-wide. Every time a story like this comes out, I want to scream. Because yet again I will have to explain to people that extremist like this psycho do not represent my religion. Sadly, I'm fighting a losing battle to convince people of the true nature of Islam. I fear that the damage done to Islam's reputation by the likes of Osama and his tools will not be reversed for at least 2 or 3 generations.

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    RTDAS pasag's Avatar
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    Yeah exactly.

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Matteh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion View Post
    I fear that the damage done to Islam's reputation by the likes of Osama and his tools will not be reversed for at least 2 or 3 generations.
    There are a massive amount of people in England who hate Germans for no actual reason. It's now about 2-3 generations since the end of the Second World War but there is still a massive load of anti-Germanic feelings, so i reckon you're probably correct to think that the damage will last that long.

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    Hall of Fame Member age_master's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pasag View Post
    Actually I'm more concered about the massive negative image and impact on the wider Muslim community in Australia that these news stories produce, all from the idiotic words of one person.


    Yeah it does reflect poorly on the muslim community that every time someone makes a remotely controvertial comment the whole media seems to go on the attack against them. Personally i think that is creating more tension then the comments themselves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion View Post
    Therein lies the tragedy doesn't it? This guy is a massive lunatic and should be arrested for inciting violence. However, he does bigger damage to the already tarnished reputation of Muslims world-wide. Every time a story like this comes out, I want to scream. Because yet again I will have to explain to people that extremist like this psycho do not represent my religion. Sadly, I'm fighting a losing battle to convince people of the true nature of Islam. I fear that the damage done to Islam's reputation by the likes of Osama and his tools will not be reversed for at least 2 or 3 generations.
    I dont want to spark a huge debate but i think its the other way round : I have little respect for the ideology itself (much like most ideologies) but the ultimate bottomline is that most people do not chose their religion- they are born into it. And right from childhood they are moulded by the moral guidelines of the said religion.This means for most people, their personality influences their outlook on religion. The ones who are intrinsically harmonious and pacifistic see their religion through their prism of pacifism and harmony and perceive their tilt as the 'real color' of the religion, since it is more 'humane' and therefore, 'a better model' than the more barbaric ways.
    However, to me, the relative regard i have for particular religions are influenced by its history.
    I utterly disagree that all religions, ultimately, preach the same thing and are pacifistic at heart. Its true that all religions talk about a utopian 'brotherly/sisterly love-based society' in either its end result goal or as a path to salvation. But the amount of importance they attach to pacifism and make sure that other aspects of the religion's theory doesnt serve a a 'loophole' to circumvent pacifism when convinient differs wildly.
    And this is reflective in the history of various religions.
    Take for example christianity/Islam on one hand and Daoism on another.
    Christianity and Islam have been extremely intolerant through the overwhelming majority of its existance. The 'early fathers' of christianity waged wars, killed people for having different faiths, wiped out entire tribes for not succumbing to their brainwashing. The 'early fathers' of Islam ( right from *the* father) were not averse to using the sword when spreading their faith was the objective ( eg: Capture of Mecca, Attacking the Persian empire, near-annihilation of the dharmic cultures in the subcontinent). Their use of sword went far beyond 'mere self defence' and as such, were genuinely aggressive moves in the name of religion.
    In contrast, i have never read (despite looking for it) about a Daoist crusade or a mass Daoist inserruction due to it being threatened by Confucianism or Buddhism or even the nascent presence of Islam and Christianity in the far east.
    All i can find in 2500+ years of Daoism's existance is one crackpot Chinese Emperor who lynched buddhists because he was a bonafide Daoist and percieved the 'foreign religion' to be colonising his empire. So one crackpot emperor vs millenias of religious warfare, butchery and genocide ?

    How can one possibly say - by comparing the history of Christianity,Islam, Judaim,Hinduism,Daoism,Buddhism, Sikkhism, Jainism, etc etc. that Islam or Christianity are 'pacifistic' ? If they are pacifistic, despite having over 90% of their history embedded with severe religion-based warfare and intolerance, just what exactly would we label Buddhim or Daoism or Jainism as ? Saintly ? The religion of 'angels' ? For they dont even have a thousandth the amount of provocative violance associated with them as Chritianity and Islam- despite them outranking Christianity and Islam by half a millenia (a full millenia for Islam).
    Too often this line of thought is met by direct quotations from the Koran or the Bible that demonstrate 'love thy neighbour and dont be a psychopath killer/rapist' angle of Christianity/Islam. What they miss however, is that in the overall framework of the religion, there exists loopholes and alternate routes to circumvent this 'love thy neighbour' angle and be a ' bloodthirsty, raping and pillaging loon'. If there arn't explicit loopholes, then there are 'anecdotal examples'. (such as Prophet Mohammed slaughtering all males- every single one of them- from an entire tribe or the Papacy receiving 'divine revealations' that Jah would be happy as a cat in cream if these dudes with a + sign on their chest went and whacked a bunch of 'saracen' dudes with a C on their chest.)

    No- i think that Christianity or Islam are inherently evil and severely messed up religions and history proves it so. However, as i also think that a particular religious perspective is an amalgam of religious theory and personality of the subject, there are a lot of good folks who are christian and muslim, for their innately pacifistic and egaletarian personality gives their otherwise violent faith a more tender and often balanced perspective.The sad thing is, they think that they are 'demonstrating' the goodness of their religion by practicing a pacifistic version of it without breaking its covenants but in reality, it is their own innate and admirable personality that is 'sanding off the rough edges' from Islam/Christianity and the 'good stuff' is their doing much more than a command or training passed from their religion.

    Ofcourse, i am only singling out christianity and Islam because from what i've seen and read, their 'dark side' is the darkest.(though Judaism needs to be in there too but its too small a religion historically to have as much negetavity, given that its followers rarely enjoyed enough regional/global power to wreak their vengeance on their neighbours for something an old fart of a high priest said)

    Sure, there are many inherent flaws in hinduism or buddhism or hell, every philosophy and/or religion.But very few have matched the nature and sheer scale of human suffering caused by christianity and islam. After these two 'bad boys' (and the little shrimp called Judaism), hinduism is next in line in terms of 'botched up record'. But it is still a quanta below these three in terms of human suffering caused. Not that it is acceptable to burn widows at the pyre or marry off 9 year olds or determine social rank and purpose solely by birth but surely, that is nothing more than 'minor social tension' compared to a bunch of people selling their assets, buying swords and knives and marching off thousands of miles to a land they've never been to just to go kill the people who live there because 'God told so' or a bunch of people burning libraries and genociding cities just because 'these doods worship dolls'.

    In short, i personally think that Christianity and Islamic philosophy at its core is extremely dark and unenlightened but there are good blokes who are Christians and Muslims.
    Last edited by C_C; 18-01-2007 at 04:06 PM.

  15. #15
    RTDAS pasag's Avatar
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    Haha, whilst your entitled to your opinion C_C, quite frankly I've never read so much drivel in my life. Had a good laugh though and I suppose that all that matters at the end of the day.

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