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Thread: The Australian politics thread

  1. #1471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Wright View Post
    Lol! You need to watch more. Axl Rose ran around the stage didn't do any dancing. Garrett on the other hand was all arms and legs and didn't stop moving the whole time he was on stage. Get a copy of Midnight Oil's performance at WaveAid or whatever that concert was when the last played. Gun Midnight Oil performance.
    Haha, admittedly I haven't seen much of him. Axl actually does have a fair bit of arm and leg action going on in the Welcome to the Jungle video, which is pretty much what I was referring to when I said their styles were similar.

    Any, err, politics huh
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  2. #1472
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howardj View Post
    The hits just keep on coming. I'm on suicide watch here at work. My shoelaces have been confiscated and have been ordered to leave my door open! Not even Shanahan could get himself up for a spirited denial article this morning. It really is end of empire stuff.
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  3. #1473
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    Mybae that is why, because he toes the party line? He seems like a robot for mine.
    You're obviously referring to his dancing again Although Peter Costello's impression was far more robotic, and it was done by a man with no lips, and no discernible talent, which made it far worse for mine.

    I'm not sure how you can hate one guy for toeing the party line when every other politician IS the party line.

  4. #1474
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Wright View Post
    Don't know what you're on about really. Garrett was a great dancer.
    He's an awesome dancer! Makes me feel like I can dance, and that's what it's all about!

    I saw him dancing at the Wave Aid concert with Midnight Oil (on DVD) and he was unreal. He was in politics then and still said stuff about the political situation etc in various places. I thought he may be more subdued, but as soon as the music started this bald head bobbed off across the stage...FANTASTIC!!!


  5. #1475
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    Lol at Lisa Milat attempt trying to run for politics. The Liberty and Democracy Party looks like a joke, their policies include relaxing gun laws (wouldn't have anything to do with her brother?), less government, less tax and make euthanasia legal. And she look so nervous even on ACA and couldn't even answer the basic question. Nice try, but no.
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  6. #1476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    Lol at Lisa Milat attempt trying to run for politics. The Liberty and Democracy Party looks like a joke, their policies include relaxing gun laws (wouldn't have anything to do with her brother?), less government, less tax and make euthanasia legal. And she look so nervous even on ACA and couldn't even answer the basic question. Nice try, but no.
    Is she also trying to declare more of Australia as state forest; encourage hitch-hiking; and introduce the large-scale exporting of second-hand backpacks?

  7. #1477
    World Traveller Craig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco View Post
    Is she also trying to declare more of Australia as state forest; encourage hitch-hiking; and introduce the large-scale exporting of second-hand backpacks?
    Well more of her policies are yet to be announced...

  8. #1478
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    Well more of her policies are yet to be announced...
    I'll bet there'll also be subsidies for shovels and occy straps.

  9. #1479
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Wright View Post
    Lol! You need to watch more. Axl Rose ran around the stage didn't do any dancing. Garrett on the other hand was all arms and legs and didn't stop moving the whole time he was on stage. Get a copy of Midnight Oil's performance at WaveAid or whatever that concert was when the last played. Gun Midnight Oil performance.
    Yeah, I was at that concert. It was great, and Garrett is a fantastic dancer. Dancing isn't always about perfectly coreographed moves any more than playing an instrument is about perfect technical precision. It's a mode of expression, and Garrett had an amazing style.
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  10. #1480
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Think Costello has seriously erred with this treasurer's debate idea. All Swan has to do is not come across as a complete numpty, and its an automatic loss for Costello. Poor Pete doesn't understand that almost no-one understands the mistake he reckons the ALP has made with their tax policy, so him carrying on like a raw prawn about it just highlights how basically unlikeable he is when he gets into point-scoring mode.

    The saving grace for the Coalition will be that almost no-one will watch it - if the analysis of the leader's debate was that it was CCTV for the political tragic set, then this is going to be a couple of jokers performing in front of a camera that's not plugged in. Is anyone on free-to-air even going to cover it?
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  11. #1481
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    Just wondering what he's actually done to coerce that opinion from you. Basically all he's done since he went into government is toe the party line on decisions that have been made by the party.
    To start with, imo a huge part of the reason he was ever elected was the fact that he was famous beforehand (which I think is wrong). Also, i find him overly hypocritical, and a number of his proposed plans in regards to the environment are nothing short of ridiculous, and strike me of someone who's full of extreme ideologies, but has absolutely no idea how to put the rubber to the road so to speak (even for those plans/policies that may have some merit to them). His "we'll reduce greenhouse gases by 25%" (i think it was 25%?) plan was a beauty, especially when it was later shown by a study that such a proposal would require all cars to be taken off of our roads by the end of the month or something like that.

    Oh, and i personally never liked his music either.
    Last edited by Johnners; 23-10-2007 at 06:07 AM.
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  12. #1482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    Think Costello has seriously erred with this treasurer's debate idea. All Swan has to do is not come across as a complete numpty, and its an automatic loss for Costello. Poor Pete doesn't understand that almost no-one understands the mistake he reckons the ALP has made with their tax policy, so him carrying on like a raw prawn about it just highlights how basically unlikeable he is when he gets into point-scoring mode.

    The saving grace for the Coalition will be that almost no-one will watch it - if the analysis of the leader's debate was that it was CCTV for the political tragic set, then this is going to be a couple of jokers performing in front of a camera that's not plugged in. Is anyone on free-to-air even going to cover it?
    I lol'd at an article I read about this today, it quoted Costello as saying "I'll take on anyone who wants to debate me"

  13. #1483
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clapo View Post
    To start with, imo a huge part of the reason he was ever elected was the fact that he was famous beforehand (which I think is wrong). Also, i find him overly hypocritical, and a number of his proposed plans in regards to the environment are nothing short of ridiculous, and strike me of someone who's full of extreme ideologies, but has absolutely no idea how to put the rubber to the road so to speak (even for those plans/policies that may have some merit to them). His "we'll reduce greenhouse gases by 25%" (i think it was 25%?) plan was a beauty, especially when it was later shown by a study that such a proposal would require all cars to be taken off of our roads by the end of the month or something like that.

    Oh, and i personally never liked his music either.
    Although in his defence, a large part of his previous fame was his interest in, and activism on behalf of a group of issues that a lot of voters would consider relevant. So to an extent, people voted for him because they knew and agreed with his philosophies. That's a very different thing from getting elected just because you're famous - that would be someone like Shane Warne or Rove McManus getting elected.

    Also, in saying that, you're maybe ignoring the fact that besides being in a rock band he was actually the head of a pretty prominent NGO focused on exactly the issues he's campaigned on, and is now the shadow minister for. That's relevant prior experience in my book, as valid as a former union official wanting to be minister for workplace relations or a former businessman wanting to be treasurer.

    It's fair enough if you disagree with his specific policies, like what we need to do (if anything) re climate change, or whether we have a nuclear industry, although just because someone has different opinions on questions like that doesn't really make them a tool in my book. Personally I agree with him that we need to consider much more drastic measures to try and begin to substantively address the impact our society is having on the environment - if that involves short-term economic pain so be it, because I honestly think in 40 years time our kids are going to hate us for fiddling while Rome burnt and selling their future in the process.

    But the main thing is that I think he's demonstrated he's not an extremist or an inflexible ideologue by actually joining a major party and showing that he's willing to follow the party line, albeit while trying to steer that line. That suggests to me he's actually interested in trying to be practical and relevant in his attempts to address what he sees to be problems - it would have been a lot easier for him to stay out of direct participation in politics, or to join the Greens and maintain his policy 'purity', but he's recognised its about how far can you actually bring people along with you.

    And I really don't like Midnight Oil's music, so my positive attitude to Garrett is not a hangover from being a groupie way back when.
    Last edited by Matt79; 23-10-2007 at 06:18 AM.

  14. #1484
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Not necessarily yet mate - probably an out-lier, but the trend seems well set in the 54-56 range TPP.

    The real worry is Labor's primary vote - even the Neilsen had it at 48%. That's the real worry for the coalition.

    Just shows us all how much perception = reality. These polls have everyone on edge each time they come out. It's a nutty time for political tragics atm.
    Yeah, but the outliers have been all one way this year. If you accept that it's been 55-45, then there should have been some outliers of 52-48. Rather, there have only been outliers trending the other way. That's the concern.

    HJ, I ask this seriously - what do you reckon re the PM's health atm? Physically he'd run rings around me, but I ask this based on some of his mannerisms lately, not of ill-will towards him.

    If on the other hand, it's just his being under pressure coz of some credible opposition for a change, then fair play and its open season.
    Yeah, he has stumbled (not in the literal sense like in 1996, when he fell off a stage!) quite a bit this campaign. However, as you allude to, I think it's more a function of pressure than anything. He must be under enormous mental stress, considering that it's his reputation on the line - it was his decision to stay on and fight this election when most of his Cabinet thought there should be a change. Hell, even I did!

    Sometimes I think you can want things too much and it strangles you. I think we're seeing that from him, on top of the pressure of being behind. Like in the debate the other night, he almost looked paralysed. Like it meant too much to him. I think he should take the attitude that he's achieved his life long goal of leading the country and indeed been Prime Minister for longer than anybody else, sans Menzies, in Australia's history. Thus, in terms of dealing with the pressure, treat winning as a bonus, not life and death.

    On the treasures' debate - neither can back down on it, but I wonder really who has the most to lose? The economy remains one of the coalitions main strengths, but if Swan can get through being conservative, bookish and not have abrain fade, I think he can neutralise Tip.

    Tip's big concern here is his demeanour more than his content, imo. He actually stands to lose more, as does his party. If he stumbles when not helped by a compliant speaker and treasury feeding him his lines, it will play worse for the coalition than a minor slip by Swan, who is likely to be given a bit more slack in the current environment.

    Costello's fun to watch in the parliament at question time, but - and it's a big but - if he carries on like that in this debate it will look terrible. If you saw his effort on Sunday with Barrie Cassidy on Insiders, he was leaning into Cassidy and got pretty aggressive. It's not bad per se, but there's a time and a plcae, as demonstrated by his little effort at the debate.
    Neither of these guys come across too well on the TV. I'd imagine the worm, when either of these guys speak, will go through the bottom of the TV and crawl along the carpet. Anyway, I like Costello. For all his faults, he is incredibly bright (nobody could bluff their way through 11 years of scrutiny as Treasurer) and is one of the few politicians with a killer sense of humour. He also doesn't mind telling a joke at his own expense.

  15. #1485
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    Although in his defence, a large part of his previous fame was his interest in, and activism on behalf of a group of issues that a lot of voters would consider relevant. So to an extent, people voted for him because they knew and agreed with his philosophies. That's a very different thing from getting elected just because you're famous - that would be someone like Shane Warne or Rove McManus getting elected.

    Also, in saying that, you're maybe ignoring the fact that besides being in a rock band he was actually the head of a pretty prominent NGO focused on exactly the issues he's campaigned on, and is now the shadow minister for. That's relevant prior experience in my book, as valid as a former union official wanting to be minister for workplace relations or a former businessman wanting to be treasurer.

    It's fair enough if you disagree with his specific policies, like what we need to do (if anything) re climate change, or whether we have a nuclear industry, although just because someone has different opinions on questions like that doesn't really make them a tool in my book. Personally I agree with him that we need to consider much more drastic measures to try and begin to substantively address the impact our society is having on the environment - if that involves short-term economic pain so be it, because I honestly think in 40 years time our kids are going to hate us for fiddling while Rome burnt and selling their future in the process.

    But the main thing is that I think he's demonstrated he's not an extremist or an inflexible ideologue by actually joining a major party and showing that he's willing to follow the party line, albeit while trying to steer that line. That suggests to me he's actually interested in trying to be practical and relevant in his attempts to address what he sees to be problems - it would have been a lot easier for him to stay out of direct participation in politics, or to join the Greens and maintain his policy 'purity', but he's recognised its about how far can you actually bring people along with you.

    And I really don't like Midnight Oil's music, so my positive attitude to Garrett is not a hangover from being a groupie way back when.
    Excellent post, and a great defence against the criticism Garrett has copped for being a flip-flopper from the left. Garrett has essentially done exactly what right-wingers always accuse environmentalists of being unable to do, which is present his views in a practical fashion and act within constraints of the political system. I don't think he's sold his soul so much as make a difficult decision to deal with the consequences of being part of a major party in order to reap the potential benefits.

    And I also agree that his fame was associated in large part with his political views rather than his music. If you asked anyone about Peter Garrett before he ran for office they'd think his politics alongside or before his music, unlike someone like Arnie, who was elected on his fame. An apt comparison for Garrett might be someone like Ronald Reagan, who was an actor and was known before his political career began, and even led the Screen Actor's Guild, but when he was elected it was purely based on his history as a conservative politician and not his work in film.

    I do like Midnight Oil quite a lot though. "One Country" is an awesome tune.
    Last edited by FaaipDeOiad; 23-10-2007 at 07:22 AM.



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