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Thread: The Australian politics thread

  1. #11896
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Define race. Not sure what you mean by unnatural anyway. It has no scientific currency any more, that's for sure.

    Dividing the world into stuff which seems similar to you and stuff which seems different can be considered part of psychological schemata development if you're a Piaget fan although even he didn't go as far as to say the capability to build schema beyond 'Oww, that hurt/feels good' is innate. The development of in/outgroups, favouratism, etc. the waters are still really muddied and there's some evidence for it being regulated by oxytocin levels but, in general, I would suggest racism and in-group bias is a learned, social behaviour (which may possibly be exaccerbated by levels hormones like oxytocin), not innate. Don't think it's controversial to say that humans have very few innate behaviours.

    I dunno, it's been a long time since I studied psych but that was my impression of where the science is at.
    Last edited by Top_Cat; 07-04-2013 at 03:39 AM.
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  2. #11897
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    Define race. Not sure what you mean by unnatural anyway. It has no scientific currency any more, that's for sure.
    I'll rephrase; Physical similarities. Un-feasible ingrouping is possibly a less loaded term here.

  3. #11898
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Even then, would argue the cues for what's appropriate/not for your group come from outside yourself. We're talking prejudice here and for mine, that perhaps has difference connotations for me than it does you. For example, I would say someone might notice differences and group them in their own mind as in/out, etc. but that isn't prejudice. Prejudice comes, for me, when the decision is made that people with characteristics who belong in that group are inferior, certainly if there is action associated with it.

    Even then, it's complex because according to the models like Deutch-Norman, what you attend to as different is dependent on what gets activated in your memory. Otherwise it just goes in and out because you don't attend to it or select it for higher levels of processing. But, of course, you need something stored there first for it to be referenced later. Good friend of mine is a researcher in this area, might ask her about it. I've been out too long to be that sure of my ground.
    Last edited by Top_Cat; 07-04-2013 at 04:24 AM.

  4. #11899
    U19 Captain Valer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    Even then, would argue the cues for what's appropriate/not for your group come from outside yourself. We're talking prejudice here and for mine, that perhaps has difference connotations for me than it does you. For example, I would say someone might notice differences and group them in their own mind as in/out, etc. but that isn't prejudice. Prejudice comes, for me, when the decision is made that people with characteristics who belong in that group are inferior, certainly if there is action associated with it.
    IIRC for general groups of arbitrary assigned groups feelings of favoritism for that group (and hence prejudice against the rest) were found after a very minimal period.

    This really isn't my area tho so I'll but out.


  5. #11900
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Ref for the study? And has it been repeated anywhere?

  6. #11901
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    Ref for the study? And has it been repeated anywhere?
    Tajfel, H. (1970). Experiments in intergroup discrimination. Scientific American, 223, 96-102.


    Some of these studies should do for repeat-ability (Non academic link!). Papers are somewhat tedious to pull from home so I haven't looked too closely.

  7. #11902
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbacks View Post
    Quote of the week: Abbott showing he is no economic simpleton...
    that cannot be a real quote
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  8. #11903
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uvelocity View Post
    I don't know top_****. to me even small children seem to discriminate against differences. not necessarily based on ethnicity but that humans tend to naturally develop a social hierarchy and the different ones cop it. I'm more nurture over nature though I think there is elements of both that contribute to a person's behaviour. So trying to educate discrimination out of humanity is admirable, beneficial and impossible in my view.
    Depends what you mean though. The levels of discrimination in most developed countries are lower than they have ever been. Probably at a level that seemed impossible a couple centuries ago.

    Human beings are remarkably adaptable. I wouldn't call it an impossible task at all. Even if we DID have those natural tendencies, it is still possible to overcome them with nurture. We do it all the time with other things.
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  9. #11904
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    Depends what you mean though. The levels of discrimination in most developed countries are lower than they have ever been. Probably at a level that seemed impossible a couple centuries ago.
    Yeah exactly. It is incredibly admirable. I love the fact I can live in this country and for the most part, barely even remember that I am of a different race to many of my anglo Australian friends. Compare that to even a few decades ago let alone centuries and its remarkable.

    However that has occurred mainly through education and of course people fighting for the rights/respect of different races. So if there still is discrimination in this country in job applications or pay etc., even if to a far lower level than many years ago, i think its important that people like Waleed, and many other authors (of different races) bring it up and discuss it in articles like his above.

    I'm surprised Benchy doesn't have time for Waleed. I don't think he's very left or anything. He generally either discusses race/terrorism, or separately, Australian politics. When he talks about Australian politics I think he just believes that modern day conservatism doesn't actually meet the true definition of conservatism and what it meant back in the day - i.e. being opposed to radical change. Wrote a great Quarterly essay on it, i.e. Workchoices was not a "conservative" policy, it was actually progressive and radical. Arguably choosing to take part in the Iraq War was not a "conservative" decision.

    Would be interested in hearing what Benchy dislikes about Waleed - and whether its his writing on politics or his writing on race that he disagrees with (obviously there is an overlap in politics and race - but I'd say his recent article about the killing of leaders in Australian politics is different to discussing a racist rant on a bus).

  10. #11905
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    Indians can't bowl - Where has the rumour come from as I myself and many indian friends arwe competent fast bowlers ?

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  11. #11906
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    What? Benchy loves Richmond supporters who graduate from Melb Uni I'd have thought. I mean he loves me. He should love Waleed.

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    That the NBN looks very likely to be destroyed depresses me greatly.
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    Cheaper, sooner, slower...

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    Fibre to the nose



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