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Thread: The Australian politics thread

  1. #856
    International Coach howardj's Avatar
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    Finally, casting back, there wasn't any debate in the United Nations, including in the Security Council over whether Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or not. If you look at the terms of the Security Council resolution passed in November of 2002 France and Germany were countries who at that time were convinced that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. That (weapons of mass destruction) wasn't the issue at the time. So, again, how is it a 'lie' when even major countries who were trenchant opponents of the war believed there were WMDs, based on the intelligence?

  2. #857
    International Vice-Captain Dasa's Avatar
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    The people, not the governments. I can't prove that of course, but I know that every person I know wasn't taking any claims of WMDs seriously, no matter where they came from.

  3. #858
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howardj View Post
    Finally, casting back, there wasn't any debate in the United Nations, including in the Security Council over whether Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or not. If you look at the terms of the Security Council resolution passed in November of 2002 France and Germany were countries who at that time were convinced that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. That (weapons of mass destruction) wasn't the issue at the time. So, again, how is it a 'lie' when even major countries who were trenchant opponents of the war believed there were WMDs, based on the intelligence?
    You make a reasonable point mate.

    The problem, though is that politically it's not something which can be explained away in the old 30 second door stop which is how most things get done in the media these days. That, in itself, is part of the problem for the government.

    You're also right to point out Rudd's stance on WMDs back before the war, but the problem, politically, for the government, is that no one remembers what an opposition front bencher said back then. What they remember is that the government, for whatever reason, got us into Iraq, and that the war is now a deeply unpopular thing. It may not be a vote changing thing, but people know who tok us there, and the perception is that they have been told a number of reasons why we went, many of which aren't particularly popular.

    Comes back to the old thing - perception IS reality, when it comes to politics.
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  4. #859
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiery View Post
    So as a question from a neutral...is John Howard doing a good job?
    No...but I'm concerned about more than just how much money he puts in my pocket.
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  5. #860
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clapo View Post
    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=278119

    Further reason to ignore anything Paul Keating says....
    I read more than just the headline, and I can't see what all the fuss is about. As far as nationalism goes, I agree with him. There's a danger that Australia is becoming too nationalistic, and it's being fed by constant fearmongering over the 'Muslim' situation re: terrorism etc etc. There's also a growing tendency for every man and his dog to proclaim they're the sole purveyor of all that is 'Australian' and 'un-Australian'...and the current government has had a very successful time in office through their ability to grab hold of this feeling and run with it.

    When everything turns pear-shaped on occasions (like the Cronulla riots) we slap each other on the back and tell each other we're not actually racist, then get on with it again until something similar happens.

    Create fear...and then be seen to be doing something about it...the same ploy worked for Bush. Then distract us by pointing out how good the economy is and occasionally put $6 -$32 back in our wallets at budget time (depending on how rich we already are), and couple this with actually doing something about major issues everytime an election year rolls around (How is David Hicks now he's home?) and you have a winning formula it seems.

    I think there are more important issues to take care of in this country than how much extra I can fit in my back pocket.

    Edit: Furthermore...if you're going to start an article with that headline I think we could all be implicated at some stage as I'd assume Hitler had a lot of ideas during his time, not all of them to do with his final solution.
    Last edited by Son Of Coco; 13-07-2007 at 02:28 AM.

  6. #861
    International Vice-Captain Dasa's Avatar
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    ^Best post imo.

  7. #862
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend andyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pasag View Post
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    Only a bunch of convicts having been beaten 3-0 and gone 9 tests without a win and won just 1 in 11 against England could go into the home series saying they will win. England will win in Australia again this winter as they are a better side which they have shown this summer. 3-0 doesn't lie girls.

  8. #863
    International Coach howardj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    You make a reasonable point mate.

    The problem, though is that politically it's not something which can be explained away in the old 30 second door stop which is how most things get done in the media these days. That, in itself, is part of the problem for the government.

    You're also right to point out Rudd's stance on WMDs back before the war, but the problem, politically, for the government, is that no one remembers what an opposition front bencher said back then. What they remember is that the government, for whatever reason, got us into Iraq, and that the war is now a deeply unpopular thing. It may not be a vote changing thing, but people know who tok us there, and the perception is that they have been told a number of reasons why we went, many of which aren't particularly popular.

    Comes back to the old thing - perception IS reality, when it comes to politics.
    Good points. In the end though, Iraq is not going to be pivotal to the election. The war hasn't really had traction here politically, for unlike the US and the UK there have been no Aussies killed in combat. For mine, on election day, most swinging voters will be thinking about their incredible levels of debt and who is best able to help them service that debt into the future. That's the Coalition's only real hope. With a mortgage and a new car, I know that's what I'll be thinking about (not that I'm a swinging voter!).

    That's one of the products of a more selfish society - people will think of themselves on polling day. To that end, Rudd's certainly done a good job so far of appearing reliable and a safe pair of hands. I guess that's where Latham fell down - people were willing to throw out the Government in 2004, but they just didn't quite perceive him to be a safe pair of hands. By contrast, Rudd - well, he just looks safe. As you say, it's all about perception.

  9. #864
    Hall of Fame Member age_master's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pasag View Post
    This is the official one.
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  10. #865
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Leadership tension resurfaces with release of new bio on Howard.

    Costello has really opened up here.

    Thoughts?

  11. #866
    State Vice-Captain JBMAC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Leadership tension resurfaces with release of new bio on Howard.

    Costello has really opened up here.

    Thoughts?
    Burgey, should an election be called right now I think Howard would be soundly defeated preemting a leadership challenge BUT and there is that word Howard is a proven survivor and maybe he will come up with a "children overboard" type thing to claw back some much needed votes..He is a fighter and will not give up easily..I personally do not think Costello has the aplomb to be PM...Rudd would make a chage,good or bad, for the Country.
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  12. #867
    Cricketer Of The Year Mr Casson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBMAC View Post
    Burgey, should an election be called right now I think Howard would be soundly defeated preemting a leadership challenge BUT and there is that word Howard is a proven survivor and maybe he will come up with a "children overboard" type thing to claw back some much needed votes..He is a fighter and will not give up easily..I personally do not think Costello has the aplomb to be PM...Rudd would make a chage,good or bad, for the Country.
    I don't know how reliable those polls will prove to be when it really comes to the crunch. There's a lot of support out there for Rudd because the Australian people are yearning for a change, but I have a feeling that common sense will prevail when it comes time to tick boxes in the polling booths, and we'll decide that it's better the devil we know. Rudd is flashy and popular, but for people to seriously place their trust in the man to lead this country is premature. He talks the campaign talk well enough, but the policies lack detail and look to be be full of promises that will be hard to realise for a government with limited experience and chronically plagued by factionalism.

    Howard's mob have pretty obviously lacked a heart in the more humanistic pursuits of the last 5 years, but overall, are people really going to risk dumping on the government that has helped us all get rich? They're all utter maggots: Costello, Abbott and Emperor Palpatine, but I wouldn't vote them out when they've had a relatively good run. Politics is politics; there's **** on the walls no matter who you vote for, you've just got to pick the ones that get on with a job.
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  13. #868
    Hall of Fame Member Johnners's Avatar
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    ^Makes a fair point does Casson.

    In other news, the QLD Government is continuing to do it's dictatorial best to make sure an increasing amount of people are going to have no political sway at all. A few of the local governments were recently talking about conducting polls to see what people really wanted in regards to the amalgamation.

    In response to that, they received a nasty little letter from Andrew Fraser (the Local Gvt. Minister) threatening them that if they were going to conduct the polls, he'd change the Local Gvt. act to stop them from doing it, which is IMO nothing short of ****ing disgraceful. They talk about 1 person 1 vote, but it's quickly becoming 1 person No vote for the majority of the population west of Ipswich. How people still vote for this dictatorship is beyond me.....
    Last edited by Johnners; 18-07-2007 at 06:53 PM.
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  14. #869
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    I was standing in a queue at the supermarket when I heard about that on the radio. My dance of joy got some odd looks. The man was absolute human garbage. I can scarcely believe he got a televised funeral.
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  15. #870
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Agree with Fuller here. Hated him, and everytime there was one of those memorial things on Foxtel's channel W (yes I watch W, shut up) because of the Beauty and the Beast show I felt like throwing up.
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