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Thread: The Australian politics thread

  1. #826
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    I'll take that as a compliment

    But I don't know about where you live, but some of the state politics are a sham. The Gold Coast's water supplies were starting to run lower then Brisbane's so the council made efforts with water restictions and the State Government fiddled until Brisbane's supplies started to drop at a rapid rate and then stepping in and taking whole control of water and trying to fix a problem once the horse had bolted. Public transport and with regards to the trains can be a bit dire. I know you won't hold much creditibility in the Daily Telegraph, but I saw it on the front page yeasterday about public transport critising Morris lemma's Government.
    State politics IS a sham. Trust me, the state government in NSW is no friend of mine, it virtually ripped the guts out of my profession, meaning I've had to change jobs and all.
    As for the trains, I've caught trains since 1982 - first to school, then uni now work. Whenever there's a stuff up, I always take solace in the bad old days.
    The big problem with our public transport here is lack of planning over the years by govts of all forms. Part of that stems from the piece-meal way Sydney grew, so that lines are patched together as the city grows, which leads to flow-on problems. As things stand, because of the way the lines are set up, if a train breaks down at North Sydney it affects people travelling to Parramatta, Penrith etc. which is ridiculous, but I imagine it would be pretty hard to modify a system as old as ours without putting in new lines everywhere and taking people's homes off them.
    The planning though, even now, is horrible. The Hills area in Sydney has exploded in recent years, yet there is no train line out there - why htey didn't put one in when they first released the land I will never know.
    Still, I think it's safe to say that the train on the Harbour Bridge on Thursday didn't break down because of the ACTU, as much as Joe Hockey might want to put it down to union bosses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco View Post
    The fact that we don't have a nationwide train system is a bit of a joke.
    One of the least palatable side-effects of a federal system, that one.
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  2. #827
    International Coach howardj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie mac View Post
    Well it makes more sense, first it was weapons of mass destruction than it changed to SH being a Dictator, I never believed any of them, at least oil would make sense. And that piece you link to has so many holes in it
    The central point the link makes - that it's an unsustainable leap in logic to suggest that was said the other day by the Government and that defence report, means that we went to war because of oil - is pretty much unarguable.

    As for the claim by the Left that we went to war based on a lie, that's just rank revisionism and itself a lie. If you cast your mind back, Kevin Rudd back then said it was an 'empirical fact' that Iraq had WMDs - a point the Labor Party agreed with.

    The argument back then was not whether Iraq had WMDs (there was bi-partisan acceptance that they did) rather the argument was whether we should join the U.S without a UN Security Council resolution.

  3. #828
    International Vice-Captain Dasa's Avatar
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    You'd do well not to stereotype the 'Left' as one, nor to assume Labor represents the left....many of those who identify with the left didn't believe the reports of WMDs, and with good reason.

  4. #829
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Newspoll today. Howard's rating up, but no move in two party preferred - still 56-44 Labor.


  5. #830
    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howardj View Post
    The central point the link makes - that it's an unsustainable leap in logic to suggest that was said the other day by the Government and that defence report, means that we went to war because of oil - is pretty much unarguable.

    As for the claim by the Left that we went to war based on a lie, that's just rank revisionism and itself a lie. If you cast your mind back, Kevin Rudd back then said it was an 'empirical fact' that Iraq had WMDs - a point the Labor Party agreed with.

    The argument back then was not whether Iraq had WMDs (there was bi-partisan acceptance that they did) rather the argument was whether we should join the U.S without a UN Security Council resolution.
    Russia invades Afghanistan and we do nothing (just one example, I could give a dozen), Iraq invades Kuwait and we go to war, tell me why? I will tell you OIL

    The fact remains they invaded when they were told by the UN not to, and at the time the Labor party was against invading. Why did they invade, when Iraq was cooperating with the inspectors?

    Proud to say I marched against that invasion

    And facts are never unarguable, and I can't understand how people could not see the Oil connection?
    Last edited by archie mac; 10-07-2007 at 04:50 PM.
    You know it makes sense.

  6. #831
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howardj View Post
    The central point the link makes - that it's an unsustainable leap in logic to suggest that was said the other day by the Government and that defence report, means that we went to war because of oil - is pretty much unarguable.

    As for the claim by the Left that we went to war based on a lie, that's just rank revisionism and itself a lie. If you cast your mind back, Kevin Rudd back then said it was an 'empirical fact' that Iraq had WMDs - a point the Labor Party agreed with.

    The argument back then was not whether Iraq had WMDs (there was bi-partisan acceptance that they did) rather the argument was whether we should join the U.S without a UN Security Council resolution.
    The fact that Nelson is at odds with his own leader, or is perceived as being at odds with him, suggests that the government cannot make up its own mind as to why we went there, why we're staying and for how long. The fact that the comment by Nelson has been siezed upon so vigorously also indicates that people have long thought oil was the reason we went there. Frankly, if the coalition had said they were going there to secure their oil suppiles, they would have likely scored points for honesty at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dasa View Post
    You'd do well not to stereotype the 'Left' as one, nor to assume Labor represents the left....many of those who identify with the left didn't believe the reports of WMDs, and with good reason.
    Correct. It's not just the "left" who thought the war was wrong. Frankly, you can't group together people with diverse views on an abundance of issues under one umbrella. The government has been very good at doing that over the years, but people are tired of it. It's like "union bosses", "union bosses" - it's all we here for God's sake. Tell the mother of that kid who died on his third day on a construction site because the companies he was working with didn't even have safety harnesses that unions have no place in this country. Tell the long distance truckies whose union is fighting for realistic timetables so they don't fall asleep at the wheel and kill people that they have no place. Tell the poor buggers who work at Chillis that they have no place. Ask the miners at Beaconsfield about the place of unions and how irrelevant they allegedly are.
    As for Labor representing the left, there's a left wing of the party but it's subservient to the right, and will continue to be. There are as many factions in the libs as there are in labor - have a look at the preselection biffo going on in NSW at the moment. You may rest assured that "the left", whoever they may be, weren't real happy about floating the dollar, deregulating the financial services of the country, bringin in enterprise bargaining and selling off government assets, which were all things the Labor Party did.

  7. #832
    World Traveller Craig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    The fact that Nelson is at odds with his own leader, or is perceived as being at odds with him, suggests that the government cannot make up its own mind as to why we went there, why we're staying and for how long. The fact that the comment by Nelson has been siezed upon so vigorously also indicates that people have long thought oil was the reason we went there. Frankly, if the coalition had said they were going there to secure their oil suppiles, they would have likely scored points for honesty at least.



    Correct. It's not just the "left" who thought the war was wrong. Frankly, you can't group together people with diverse views on an abundance of issues under one umbrella. The government has been very good at doing that over the years, but people are tired of it. It's like "union bosses", "union bosses" - it's all we here for God's sake. Tell the mother of that kid who died on his third day on a construction site because the companies he was working with didn't even have safety harnesses that unions have no place in this country. Tell the long distance truckies whose union is fighting for realistic timetables so they don't fall asleep at the wheel and kill people that they have no place. Tell the poor buggers who work at Chillis that they have no place. Ask the miners at Beaconsfield about the place of unions and how irrelevant they allegedly are.
    As for Labor representing the left, there's a left wing of the party but it's subservient to the right, and will continue to be. There are as many factions in the libs as there are in labor - have a look at the preselection biffo going on in NSW at the moment. You may rest assured that "the left", whoever they may be, weren't real happy about floating the dollar, deregulating the financial services of the country, bringin in enterprise bargaining and selling off government assets, which were all things the Labor Party did.

    That is one hell of an emotional rant...
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  8. #833
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    That is one hell of an emotional rant...
    Sure is. Almost as hysterical as the "union bosses" bleating.

  9. #834
    Hall of Fame Member Johnners's Avatar
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    Big lol at the Peter Garrett/Drugs thing. It'll be the biggest farce if this twit ever makes decision that will affect the future of Australia.
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  10. #835
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clapo View Post
    Big lol at the Peter Garrett/Drugs thing. It'll be the biggest farce if this twit ever makes decision that will affect the future of Australia.
    Why's that mate? Bill Clinton smoked dope and was US President for 8 years.

  11. #836
    Hall of Fame Member Johnners's Avatar
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    Good on him, i just have a poor opinion of Peter Garrett tbh.

  12. #837
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Mister Wright's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clapo View Post
    Good on him, i just have a poor opinion of Peter Garrett tbh.
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  13. #838
    Hall of Fame Member Johnners's Avatar
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    haha, thought i'd kept it secret tbh

  14. #839
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Mister Wright's Avatar
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    Don't see what the issue is tbh. Need some more rock 'n' roll in politics. I reckon if they all sat around having a session then they'd get a lot more done than arguing like primary school kids in question time. Certainly would make for more interesting viewing and deeper conversation. And the opposing parties might actually agree on something.

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