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Thread: The Australian politics thread

  1. #7411
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howardj View Post
    Yep, saying that a person has less political legitimacy as PM when they need they support of independents and minor parties, than someone with a thumping majority...that equates to saying I want nobody to be PM for the next three years.

    You got me.
    Bitter much?

    All this swill from the Tories now - the government is illegitimate. What a load of tosh. It's precisely the same process Abbott was prepared to go through to try and secure government, and it didn't fall their way so now they're out and about whinging. It's a ****ing joke. If they can cause the government to lose a no confidence motion then he can have a go.

    Good luck to him if he can. Good luck to him too if they sit and oppose every single thing that gets put up, because people will see straight through it. It'll be like a mass outbreak of Christopher Pynes everywhere.

    Anyone who thinks it is only the Labor side who have to play this very carefully is seriously mistaken. If the opposition is seen to be being deliberately obstructionist then they'll pay for that as much as the government will if it tries to egregiously manipulate the situation for its own ends.
    Last edited by Burgey; 08-09-2010 at 08:00 PM.
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  2. #7412
    International Vice-Captain Redbacks's Avatar
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    Cheeky suggestion from the Greens that they could side with the Coalition to pass some legislation if the two parties agree on a key issue and have the required number of votes in the Lower House. That kind of a work will bring on an election if an issue ever will. Maybe they can at least keep the internet filter opt out!!

  3. #7413
    International Vice-Captain Redbacks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    If there is a bias, it's editorial and very small. Small peanuts compared to the UK or god forbid the US.
    I guess it's all about who pays most for advertising in the major print and television media, they know their customers and what is best for them. Social issues don't make good news puff pieces and certainly don't sell many products.

  4. #7414
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbacks View Post
    Cheeky suggestion from the Greens that they could side with the Coalition to pass some legislation if the two parties agree on a key issue and have the required number of votes in the Lower House. That kind of a work will bring on an election if an issue ever will. Maybe they can at least keep the internet filter opt out!!
    Yeah they should do it for mental health funding and the internet filter.
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  5. #7415
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    I think that in a way, a Liberal government would have slightly more legitimacy if it had've collected the 75+1 seats, due to the fact that it won more seats in the election and had a greater number of primary votes, as well as having the required seat amount in the end. It's a matter of degrees, and still would have been challenged by Labor about its legitimacy, but to me it would have had more ground to stand on in that argument.

    In the end though, they didn't get the 76 seats. The Libs were like a footy team taking on a stronger side, they played better but still didn't quite get the points due to a goal after the siren.

  6. #7416
    International Coach social's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Cool man. In the future let's just have the banks choose the government.

    You're entitled to your opinion, but you're sensationalist posts every now and then are quite comical.
    Whether we like it or not, their funding is necessary to provide growth and if they restict/stop lending or make it prohibitively expensive, then there is only one way the economy will head e.g. Queensland outside the mineral belt is a basket case because of this very scenario

    Anyway, the best result that could have been achieved at this election would have been a big majority for either of the major parties

    Unfortunately, what we have now is a disaster for all bar those with a vested interest

    (Dont believe me - poll a reasonable number of businesses and I guarantee this view will be held by 50 times the number that oppose it

  7. #7417
    International Coach social's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbacks View Post
    Cheeky suggestion from the Greens that they could side with the Coalition to pass some legislation if the two parties agree on a key issue and have the required number of votes in the Lower House. That kind of a work will bring on an election if an issue ever will. Maybe they can at least keep the internet filter opt out!!
    Seriously, what did you think was going to happen?

    Anyone that has read The Greens policies knows that we're dealing with the lunatic fringe and they wont be sidelined just because of that

  8. #7418
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Originally quoted by Jack the Mac:

    I think that in a way, a Liberal government would have slightly more legitimacy if it had've collected the 75+1 seats, due to the fact that it won more seats in the election and had a greater number of primary votes, as well as having the required seat amount in the end. It's a matter of degrees, and still would have been challenged by Labor about its legitimacy, but to me it would have had more ground to stand on in that argument.

    In the end though, they didn't get the 76 seats. The Libs were like a footy team taking on a stronger side, they played better but still didn't quite get the points due to a goal after the siren.


    Actually mate, that's not true.

    The Party with the greatest number of primary votes was the ALP, and with the greatest number of seats - 72. The others are:

    Liberal 44 seats
    LNP of Qld 21
    Nationals 7 (although they probably won’t all sit together)
    Greens 1
    CLP 1

    So unless the Libs and Nats and others want to all lose their identities and just be referred to as one party, it's a bit rich of them to run this line. Frankly I don't give a fig, because it's all about commanding seats.

    Under our system, unless you get 50% of it, the primary vote is simply a means to the end of getting over 50% of the preferred vote in any given seat.

    it's ironic to hear the Libs whining about primary vs TPP votes, because they brought the latter in to ensure their coalition with the (then) Country Party would be competitive. Now there's a third force which is to the left (ie The Greens) it's working against them, because the Green preferences flow to ALP, just as Nat preferences have always flowed to the Libs.

    People can put any old spin on things they like, and no doubt they will. A classic example is Social's usual merchant wanker spin from 8,000 kilometres away. Of course, the fact the banks have done what they did has nothing at all to do with uncertainty givent he fragile state of the parliament - it's all because the "wrong side" won. If Tone had gotten in, interest rates would have fallen to 0.4% - they'd be throwing money around at everyone, because the government would be so, so very stable.

    Horse **** of course. But then, there's plenty of that from both sides.

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    Last edited by Burgey; 08-09-2010 at 10:10 PM.

  9. #7419
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Wouldn't be like the banks to just try and gouge people under any old pretext...
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  10. #7420
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howardj View Post
    Lest you get offended. I mean, for a guy who refers to the Liberal party as 'scum/filth', you're pretty precious.

    But, there you go, there is my disclaimer for just for you.
    Again, I'm not offended, I just think the argument is stupid.
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  11. #7421
    International Coach howardj's Avatar
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    Gillard's overarching challenge for the next three years - if the minority government lasts that long - is to acquire the mantle of political legitimacy after the deadlocked election result.

    Faifax Journalist

    It's just very frustrating having to haggle over what any knowledgeable person would consider to be a basic political truth - i.e. if you can only form a minority Govt then you somewhat lack political legitimacy. It really cheapens this high quality thread to have to haggle over what is a really basic point. It's the people who deny the point who are being partisan, not the people who make it.
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  12. #7422
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howardj View Post
    Gillard's overarching challenge for the next three years - if the minority government lasts that long - is to acquire the mantle of political legitimacy after the deadlocked election result.

    Faifax Journalist

    It's just very frustrating having to haggle over what any knowledgeable person would consider to be a basic political truth - i.e. if you can only form a minority Govt then you somewhat lack political legitimacy. It really cheapens this high quality thread to have to haggle over what is a really basic point. It's the people who deny the point who are being partisan, not the people who make it.
    No, the stupidity of the argument is that the other party are making it.

    It's a two party, Westminster system. By hook or by crook one of them has to form government.

    So essentially what the Libs are saying is "Your government isn't legitimate, but if we formed one with the help of Messes Windsor and Oakeshott, ours wouldn't be either."

  13. #7423
    Hall of Fame Member Johnners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Mitch Johnson is ****ing awesome for cricket.
    Quote Originally Posted by pasag View Post
    Ponting's ability to ton up in the first innings of a series should not be understated. So much pressure, so important. What a great!

  14. #7424
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Fair out Howie, give it a rest already. You've banged this drum for two days now and everyone has heard what you said and mostly said they think it's a silly meaningless argument. I don't think you're going to get anywhere just repeating the point over and over.
    Last edited by Matt79; 09-09-2010 at 05:15 AM.

  15. #7425
    International Regular stephen's Avatar
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    Love it. In fact I loved the whole series.

    Especially the bit where they found Turnbull and asked him to lead the Labor party as he was "the only politician with any credibility left on left wing issues"..

    But the best was definitely "Why I voted Green".

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