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Thread: The Australian politics thread

  1. #6766
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Love this:
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  2. #6767
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pasag View Post
    As far as I know there isn't any evidence of that, which is my whole point.

    I'd like to know why someone like Sarah Hanson-Young can blabber on about talking to people on the campaign trail as if she's righteously connecting with the people somehow yet you get a couple of those people in a room and all of a sudden it's evil.
    Think the evidence has been all around you for the past five weeks, and much of the two years before that.

    Surely you can't have got into marketing without expecting people to have a degree of contempt for what you do.

  3. #6768
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    Focus groups/talkfests are all hot air.

    The people want real action!
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  4. #6769
    RTDAS pasag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howardj View Post
    Well, I think you answered your own question. Much of the electorate is made up of morons you say, and yet you ask what is wrong with focus groups?

    There is nothing wrong with focus groups, just that the findings shouldn't be used as a template for Governance or policy. By all means, use focus groups for your attack lines during a campaign, but not for actual policy making.

    Kevin Rudd, for one, tied himself in knots because he told people what they wanted to hear, but when it came time to do it....
    Second part was just me being silly once I had the rant juice flowing but either way, whether people are morons or not doesn't negate the importance of understanding how they feel and what's important to them and again, the vilification of the focus group in the campaign, IMO has been completely unfounded and I say that with no bias whatsoever.
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  5. #6770
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    They tested the focus-group bashing extensively with different focus groups and found it played very well.

    Think you're possibly taking it a bit too personally - its not the methodology they're bashing, it's the pollies over-reliance on that one methodology.

  6. #6771
    RTDAS pasag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    Think the evidence has been all around you for the past five weeks, and much of the two years before that.

    Surely you can't have got into marketing without expecting people to have a degree of contempt for what you do.
    Happy with the criticism, as long as it's the right, properly argued criticism and not just meaningless catch phrases you've picked up while watching the news (again, not talking about anyone here).

  7. #6772
    RTDAS pasag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    They tested the focus-group bashing extensively with different focus groups and found it played very well.

    Think you're possibly taking it a bit too personally - its not the methodology they're bashing, it's the pollies over-reliance on that one methodology.
    Missed the tongue in cheek bit in the end

    Point is it's turned into bashing the methodology now and it's gotten completely out of hand.

  8. #6773
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    There is an irony here...

  9. #6774
    International Coach howardj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Focus groups/talkfests are all hot air.

    The people want real action!
    We're ahead mate.

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  10. #6775
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    The issue with focus groups isn't that they don't provide a representation of opinions, though of course as a method it has its limitations. The issue with using focus groups to determine policy is that it's pandering for votes usually on fairly shallow grounds rather than presenting a broader political philosophy and a vision for leadership.

    Not to say that politicians shouldn't worry about votes or "what people want", but I don't look for leaders who think the best way to determine public policy is to ask a bunch of random people what issues they're most worked up about and follow their lead. We elect people to govern for us based on a presented system of belief and some general policies. The reason I'd rather the ALP ran the country instead of the Coalition isn't because of X or Y promise made during the campaign, it's because I think the general belief system of the party more closely mirrors my own, and I'm interested in what the parties actually think, not that someone told Tony Abbott to say "fair dinkum" a lot because it makes him seem like an ordinary bloke or hearing "stop the boats" and "he'll bring back workchoices" over and over.

    Some parts of it are inevitable in modern politics and some are even good, but this campaign has been dominated way too much by that kind of policy guidance.
    Last edited by FaaipDeOiad; 24-08-2010 at 03:52 AM.
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  11. #6776
    RTDAS pasag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad View Post
    The issue with focus groups isn't that they don't provide a representation of opinions, though of course as a method it has its limitations. The issue with using focus groups to determine policy is that it's pandering for votes usually on fairly shallow grounds rather than presenting a broader political philosophy and a vision for leadership.

    Not to say that politicians shouldn't worry about votes or "what people want", but I don't look for leaders who think the best way to determine public policy is to ask a bunch of random people what issues they're most worked up about and follow their lead. We elect people to govern for us based on a presented system of belief and some general policies. The reason I'd rather the ALP ran the country instead of the Coalition isn't because of X or Y promise made during the campaign, it's because I think the general belief system of the party more closely mirrors my own, and I'm interested in what the parties actually think, not that someone told Tony Abbott to say "fair dinkum" a lot because it makes him seem like an ordinary bloke or hearing "stop the boats" and "he'll bring back workchoices" over and over.

    Some parts of it are inevitable in modern politics and some are even good, but this campaign has been dominated way too much by that kind of policy guidance.
    Right, this has all been covered in the first post where I asked for any evidence that this is actually occurring (specific to a focus group context, not a pandering one).

  12. #6777
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Yeah, I think it's more a buzz word by which people mean that it's been a shallow campaign based on vote pandering rather than broader issues. As Matt said, I don't think it's really about the methodology, but focus groups are part of how political strategists work out what's going to be successful and what's not.

    The criticism isn't "focus groups are bad at determining information", it's "focus groups are a bad way to decide how to run the country".

  13. #6778
    International Vice-Captain Redbacks's Avatar
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    Maybe focus groups are getting a bashing because:

    a) Abbott didn't fit into the pigeon hole that labor and media commentators said he was destined to collapse into, and

    b) Labor's ability to stick to its' convictions over the last 3 years being as weak as water, other than on stimulus spending to avoid recession, thus opening itself up to criticism.

  14. #6779
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Focus groups or not, the fact remains that the management of the Labor campaign was truly horrific leaks or no leaks.
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  15. #6780
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirBloody Idiot View Post


    That's so unbelievably awesome. The McMahon one with Savage Garden in the background had me laughing so hard.
    Yeah its brilliant. This thread is too serious for such quality humour though
    Quote Originally Posted by pasag View Post
    Honestly, the criticisms of this campaign have been dire (and I don't mean this thread which has been fantastic aside from Jono)
    And the feud continues
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