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Thread: The Australian politics thread

  1. #4111
    International Regular stephen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James90 View Post
    **** off and die.

    We gave in to 90% of your amendments and you ****s still voted it down.

    Is pretty obvious who's backing away from the issue.
    If it truly was the "greatest moral issue of our generation" then Rudd would have found a way by negotiating with the Green party.

    The fact is that an ETS is electoral poison in the medium to long term and Labor knows it. That is why they will only negotiate with the coallition on this - they need the coallition to back it otherwise they will lose power over it.

    Nobody in the general public realises how economically disastrous this will be, forcing investors away due to sovereign risk concerns and energy price concerns, not to mention the gigantic losses due to government monetary churn. And all for what? A mere 5% of 2% of world emissions.

    If an ETS or carbon price ever goes through it has to be with bipartisan support. Rudd knows it, Labor knows it and the Liberals know it.

  2. #4112
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    Stephen - posts the things I couldn't be bothered posting.

    Want to take my girlfriend out for dinner as well?
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  3. #4113
    International Regular stephen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Stephen - posts the things I couldn't be bothered posting.

    Want to take my girlfriend out for dinner as well?
    Hey if you're paying, why not?

  4. #4114
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
    Hey if you're paying, why not?
    That wasn't part of the deal, Blackheart!!!


  5. #4115
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Speaking of One Nation, anyone here that **** head audience member on Q&A?

    TONY JONES: Okay, we’re going to move on. Our next question comes from Bib Vinnicombe. If I’m right, Bob is a former One Nation candidate. Is that correct, Bob?

    BOB VINNICOMBE: Oh, that’s right, Tony, yes. Changing the subject a bit, I’ve got a question on national security to General Cosgrove and Brigadier Creagh. The Australian Government’s National Security website lists 18 proscribed terrorist organisations. Every one of these is an Islamic organisation. Every one of them. Isn't that sufficient reason to stop Muslim immigration altogether and to stop building any more Islamic schools?

    PETER COSGROVE: Bob, I didn’t come here to discuss that.

    BOB VINNICOMBE: If not, why not?

    AUDIENCE MEMBER: Unbelievable.

    PETER COSGROVE: Bob, I did not come here to discuss that. I won’t answer that question.

    TONY JONES: Can I just interrupt you there, because you did make - let me just press you on this. You did make a particular plea in a recent speech for Australia to confront dark pockets of racism, so let me ask you are you troubled by questions like this?

    PETER COSGROVE: Only troubled that they’re asked. Look, I think we should continue to have a strong immigration policy and, secondly, I think we ought to acknowledge that we are not without issues that have a racist tinge about them. I notice that the commissioner for the Victoria Police acknowledge as much, soon after I spoke.


    The minute Tony mentioned he was from One Nation I knew his question would be a beaut. He did not disappoint.
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  6. #4116
    International Regular stephen's Avatar
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    What a corker of a question. Seriously, I cannot believe that these people exist within our society.

    Yes the majority of worldwide organised terrorist groups are Muslim in origin, but fifty years ago, the same was true of Christianity. The key is not to isolate, but to integrate.

  7. #4117
    International Coach howardj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James90;2209246[B
    ]**** off and die.[/B]

    We gave in to 90% of your amendments and you ****s still voted it down.

    Is pretty obvious who's backing away from the issue.
    Nice.

    Go back to kindergarten mate, if you can't debate the issues without abuse.

    'To delay is to deny'. - Kevin Rudd 2010

    I mean, where's his threatened double dissolution on this great moral challenge?
    Last edited by howardj; 27-04-2010 at 04:23 PM.

  8. #4118
    Cricketer Of The Year James90's Avatar
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    Yeah look. Australia will suffer if we don't act on climate change and seriously encourage alternative energy. People want action on climate change but aren't able to make the adjustments to their own lifestyles to make it happen. Besides...save all the power that you can in the household, insulate your roof etc, it's still not going to make anywhere near as big of an impact as putting a cap on the emissions that the heavy polluters send into the atmosphere.

    I still think this issue is too important to let slide and that an ETS should be passed by a sitting of both houses of parliament, however I worry about what else will happen if we have a Senate which includes the likes of Steve Fielding and Pauline Hanson. I'd rather have the Greens in the balance of power so that the Government can actually achieve something. I'd like to see the ABCC abolished for starters.

    It just ****s me to tears that the Libs try to use this as a political game when they're the reason that Australia will continue to fall behind as Australian solar companies head overseas to get the benefits and develop their technologies.

    The only way we'll ever get the action on climate change that we need is if America signs up. That is true. However, every ETS that is introduced around the world makes the likelihood of a global carbon market more feasible and more attractive to America.
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  9. #4119
    Cricketer Of The Year James90's Avatar
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    Rudd is soft as butter though. Will grant you that.

  10. #4120
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
    What a corker of a question. Seriously, I cannot believe that these people exist within our society.
    TBH, he's pretty mild compared to a lot of what's out there. Hang around your average pub or some bikies and you hear far more vehement and sometimes violent setiment.

    To blatantly hijack the thread......as for what to do about terrorist groups in this country, obviously it's a toughie. I'd say there's got to be a point at which the mainstream communities they're part of reject them entirely and I don't think that'll happen because we're talking about blood relations here.

    There's some parallels with the Nunga community here in SA. For years, a sub-section of it have been targeted in an operation called Mandrake (everyone relax, the op name is public now). Basically, they're terrorists; they do ram raids, rob post offices, car jackings, serious assaults and a bunch of other stuff, much of which hasn't been made public. They've no interest in being law-abiding and do it mainly for self-interest and the chicks.

    The problem as I see it is this; publicly, the Nunga community is against them. Only thing is, when one of these idiots is your cousin who turns up on your doorstep with bloodied hands begging you to help them, what are you going to do? And I understand how hard it is because I'm related to most of these idiots. And, tbh, if one of them rocked up on my doorstep, I'd be encouraging them to report themselves to the nearest station but I dunno if I'd force the issue and I'm not sure if I would be able to just refuse to help them.

    The research position on both types of groups largely centres around the status of women. Basically, the theory is that helping along the empowerment of women in these communities changes the life path of kids and that was certainly the position of a conference on the topic I went to. I believe there is a missing component of the theory, though. I come from a fairly horrific DV situation and in straw polls of friends and relatives of mine who've suffered the same but have come through it with stable lives, careers, etc. two factors come into it;

    1) Strong mothers in their lives
    2) The mother removed them from the criminal part of the community

    Both apply to me personally and everyone I know who grew up in a similar situation. How you apply this sort of logic to any 'at risk' group, terrorists, etc. I dunno.
    Last edited by Top_Cat; 27-04-2010 at 05:27 PM.
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  11. #4121
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howardj View Post
    Nice.

    Go back to kindergarten mate, if you can't debate the issues without abuse.

    'To delay is to deny'. - Kevin Rudd 2010

    I mean, where's his threatened double dissolution on this great moral challenge?
    Surely you don't want that? The Libs would be pantsed.

    Bike Pantsed at that..

    You can't obstruct something, then deride the government for not introducing it. It's so transparent even the mug voters in this country will see through it. You can oppose it of course, but you can't stop it going through then say "Oh, he promised it but hasn't delivered".
    Last edited by Burgey; 27-04-2010 at 06:09 PM.
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  12. #4122
    International Regular stephen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James90 View Post
    It just ****s me to tears that the Libs try to use this as a political game when they're the reason that Australia will continue to fall behind as Australian solar companies head overseas to get the benefits and develop their technologies.
    It's so good to see the broken window fallacy promoted so openly within Labor circles. It really inspires confidence in their ability to run the country.

    The fact is that any time an industry is dependent on subsidy to even exist, you know that the industry is a) extremely fledgling or b) a waste of resources. The solar industry falls under the latter of the two. Solar technology has been around for thirty odd years and is still the most expensive power generation technology currently available.

    So those solar companies crying because they cannot suck on the public teat can go jump off a bridge for all I care. My tax dollars are better spent elsewhere.

    All of this is meaningless anyway as the ETS would simply have promoted gas generation over coal generation for the most part.

    Interestingly the worst piece of legislature has been the MRET. I cannot believe that the Libs voted for that one. It's utterly ridiculous. Here are the list of problems from the top of my head:

    1) First of all it gives solar hot water and heat pumps a disproportionate amount of RECs - five times as much as any large scale renewable technology. Since the MRET was introduced the price of RECs has plummeted thanks to the extra credit given to these small scale technologies. This part of the legislation means that we're "on target", but the target is an illusion.

    2) It promotes every low carbon technology except the one that is proven to work on a large scale. The anti-nuclear bias in Australian politics is the worst case of fear mongering ever perpetrated in Australia.

    3) The proposal to fix the problem is even more ridiculous and screws over energy retailers, who are forced to purchase all of the small scale RECs that are created at a fixed price. Most retailers only operate with razor thin margins, so the ultimate cost will be with the end electricity users.

    4) The concept of an MRET is a perfect example of the broken window fallacy and it really annoys me no end that this economic myth is still in force today. Perhaps if we weren't wasting billions of dollars on overpriced generation technologies we could actually have enough resources to improve our ailing health systems.

    5) Australia is the only country in the world to put an MRET in place for climate change reasons. Every other country that has one has it for energy security reasons. This is simply unnecessary here when we have thousands of years of known coal deposits and hundreds of years of known gas deposits.

    In all, the politics around climate change is a bunch of misinformed, scaremongering garbage for the most part and it annoys me no end.

  13. #4123
    International Captain Ausage's Avatar
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    Popped my Alan Jones cherry in a cab for 45 mins this morning. Always heard about what a **** the man was, but I didn't realise how depressingly difficult it is to sit through that much vitriol. It was propoganda in it's purest form and I'm amazed that it even exists in this country, let alone rates as highly as it does.
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  14. #4124
    International Captain Ausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
    The fact is that any time an industry is dependent on subsidy to even exist, you know that the industry is a) extremely fledgling or b) a waste of resources. The solar industry falls under the latter of the two. Solar technology has been around for thirty odd years and is still the most expensive power generation technology currently available.
    Genuine question here, how is this the case? I know it's expensive to put a panel on every roof in the country, but surely once this was done there would be far less maintenance than the coal fired plants that dot the country. Wouldn't there be a point at which savings begin to be made? What about the economic benefits of a reduction in pollution (obviously these are hard to quantify)?

  15. #4125
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    Popped my Alan Jones cherry in a cab for 45 mins this morning. Always heard about what a **** the man was, but I didn't realise how depressingly difficult it is to sit through that much vitriol. It was propoganda in it's purest form and I'm amazed that it even exists in this country, let alone rates as highly as it does.
    I thoroughly hate that man, and genuinely think he is scum.



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