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Thread: The Australian politics thread

  1. #3916
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howardj View Post
    I think Turnbull was the modern day John Hewson - a businessman who never had the political touch of seasoned Parliamentarians. Recalling the Godwin Grech affair last Winter when MT called on the PM to resign over misleading Parliament...it never occurred to MT that before you call for what is the check-mate of politics, the ultimate move (i.e. asking the PM to step down) that you have an absolute water-tight case. He was too impatient and too lacking in political judgement to verify what turned out to be fake correspondence.

    Then, in that interview with Laurie Oaks the week before he lost the leadership, he could not even bring himself to say that the Liberal Party would be worth voting for if it dumped the ETS, was just shocking. And then, in the sad denouement and ultimate evidence of his political naivety, he last week offers himself up for a spot on Abbott's frontbench even though the ETS is still before Parliament. Well...what more can you say...
    Yeah, Turnbull's intellect and pazzazz far outweighed his judgment as a pollie.

    He'll be back in Sydney now, riching it up around Phillip, Macquarie and Bond Streets. If I see him I'll run him over for you mate.

    A shame in a way, he could have taken them back to the centre had he had better judgment. Wasn't to be.
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  2. #3917
    Cricketer Of The Year James90's Avatar
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    Fail to believe that he won't recontest Wentworth tbh. Suggest he might end up being the ALPs candidate.

    Is such a shame though. Was really starting to rate Turnbull by the end of his leadership...was even thinking...this wouldn't be thaaaaat bad. Not only was he stabbed in the back but he was the man most likely to make Australia act on climate change and he failed.
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  3. #3918
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Stayed on long enough to see Nick Minchin pull the pin - reckon he'll derive some satisfaction from that.
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  4. #3919
    International Regular stephen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James90 View Post
    Fail to believe that he won't recontest Wentworth tbh. Suggest he might end up being the ALPs candidate.

    Is such a shame though. Was really starting to rate Turnbull by the end of his leadership...was even thinking...this wouldn't be thaaaaat bad. Not only was he stabbed in the back but he was the man most likely to make Australia act on climate change and he failed.
    For Rudd to accept him as a nominee would be disasterous to someone. I just can't work out who. There would obviously be all the political damage to the Liberals, but Rudd and co spent a long time making damaging attacks on Turnbull.

    I suppose it would be more damaging to the Liberals having their former leader join the ranks of their opposition.

    EDIT: It is quite clear to me that Turnbull was liked by Labor voters more than Liberal voters, probably in a similar way to how many thought that Rudd belonged in the Liberal party for a while.
    Last edited by stephen; 06-04-2010 at 07:26 PM.


  5. #3920
    Cricketer Of The Year James90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
    For Rudd to accept him as a nominee would be disasterous to someone. I just can't work out who. There would obviously be all the political damage to the Liberals, but Rudd and co spent a long time making damaging attacks on Turnbull.

    I suppose it would be more damaging to the Liberals having their former leader join the ranks of their opposition.

    EDIT: It is quite clear to me that Turnbull was liked by Labor voters more than Liberal voters, probably in a similar way to how many thought that Rudd belonged in the Liberal party for a while.
    Definitely not advocating to endorce someone who has spent the last 10 years of their life actively working against the party when there's a plethora of locals who have spent the last 10 years championing the Labor cause.

    Was really just a statement about how he's essentially the best campaigner for the CPRS in the entire parliament and I wouldn't be surprised if he'd vote for Rudd before he voted for Abbott.

    Can't believe people think Abbott is a straight talker. The guy was always the right-wing nutjob that would be rolled out to say the things that Howard wanted to but couldn't. Now he's suggesting paid parental leave and is campaigning for a big government approach to climate change. Do people honestly take him seriously?
    Last edited by James90; 07-04-2010 at 03:38 AM.

  6. #3921
    International Captain Ausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James90 View Post
    Can't believe people think Abbott is a straight talker. The guy was always the right-wing nutjob that would be rolled out to say the things that Howard wanted to but couldn't. Now he's suggesting paid parental leave and is campaigning for a big government approach to climate change. Do people honestly take him seriously?
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  7. #3922
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Straight talker is just nice spin for "lacking an internal censor"

  8. #3923
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    Straight talker is just nice spin for "lacking an internal censor"
    That's brilliant, frankly. Shall use if you don't mind?

  9. #3924
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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  10. #3925
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    If Brumby doesn't force Nixon to resign, I'll come down there myself and force the issue.

  11. #3926
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    Quote Originally Posted by howardj View Post
    If Brumby doesn't force Nixon to resign, I'll come down there myself and force the issue.
    Whilst Nixon was in the wrong, I think that this sums up the situation rather well.

    Black Saturday Bushfires Royal Commission | Christine Nixon

    Looks like she'll be getting a political hanging, when the actual effect of those particular actions on the day are more symbolic than anything.

    And I ... severely dislike... Nixon.
    Last edited by vic_orthdox; 07-04-2010 at 11:50 PM.

  12. #3927
    International Regular stephen's Avatar
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    I was a big Abbott supporter until he announced his maternity care plan. Now I'm nowhere near as big of a supporter. I mean since when does the Liberals tax businesses? It's unheard of and silly from an economic point of view.

  13. #3928
    International Coach howardj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    Whilst Nixon was in the wrong, I think that this sums up the situation rather well.

    Black Saturday Bushfires Royal Commission | Christine Nixon

    Looks like she'll be getting a political hanging, when the actual effect of those particular actions on the day are more symbolic than anything.

    And I ... severely dislike... Nixon.
    With respect to the writer, it's not about 'scalping the lot of them'. That's the oldest debating tactic in the book - make your position sound considered, by making your opposition sound extreme or irrational.

    She admits, before she left work that day, that she was briefed on the scale of the disaster and the likelihood of a mass loss of life. My only question would be: if ever there was a time when you would work all night (as many in highly paid positions are required to do from time to time) would this not have been the night?

    That she left her post at 6pm (three hours before it's even dark FFS) on such a night is disgraceful. That she went out to dinner is beside the point. It's not about going out to dinner; it's about showing leadership in a time of diabolical crisis. Just her mere presence there would have done at least something for morale.

    It's not about, as the writer puts it, 'blaming someone for the Black Saturday'. Again, that is totally exaggerating the point in order to make those calling for her sacking sound irrational.

  14. #3929
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    What would she have actually contributed Howie? For the police and emergency services, the disaster wasn't an issue that simply required a surge for 24 hours with all hands on pump. You're quite right, she would have known there would be massive issues coming out of it. In that circumstance, one of the key roles of management, for themselves as much as their staff, is quickly making a judgement on the balance of 'all hands on deck' vs 'we've got a massive load of work ahead of us over the next week and next month, and people are going to need some rest or we'll fall in a heap within two days'.

    If she'd been working flatout all day, and had assured herself that someone qualified and competent was there to keep doing what needed doing overnight, then going and getting some downtime and kip ahead of what would be a massive day where her troops and the government would be relying on her was a pretty sensible move.

    As for her presence contributing to morale, normally the best thing senior executives can do in this sort of crisis is make sure that the line managers know what they're doing, and then get out of the way and let them and their teams do the work, while keeping the government advised and out of the workers hair. If people are being distracted or micromanaged by the agency head when they're already busy, that's not helpful.
    Last edited by Matt79; 08-04-2010 at 12:40 AM.

  15. #3930
    International Coach howardj's Avatar
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    The Chief Commissioner is the Coordinator for Emergency Management under the legislation (Emergency Management Act) and is responsible for coordinating emergency responses across Victoria and reporting to the Minister. So, on that basis, there was so very obviously a role for her to play (i.e. helping to co-ordinate the response and reporting to the Minister).

    Some of her defenders are making out that because she couldn't physically do anything to stop the fires, then her presence would not have made any difference. I find this hard to swallow. Now, I am not involved in disaster relief so I do not know the precise details of what she could have done. But just because a layman can't say precisely what she could have contributed, does not mean that she could not have contributed.

    Furthermore, it's now come to light that she also left a critical task undone in her haste to leave for dinner:

    CHRISTINE Nixon and other senior police failed in their responsibility to oversee warnings on Black Saturday, the former chief commissioner told the Bushfires Royal Commission yesterday.

    ‘’There should have been a follow-up and I should have done it,’’ she said, acknowledging that police did not check that fire-agency warnings were adequate…

    Under questioning by Rachel Doyle, SC, for the commission, Ms Nixon said she left emergency headquarters at 6pm and had not asked senior police if they had checked warnings, a responsibility emergency protocols gave to Victoria Police.


    This is not about politics. Most punters would not even know the process for appointing a Police Comissioner, much less care.



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