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Thread: The Australian politics thread

  1. #3106
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    It's the vibe, it's Mabo, it's the Consitiution.

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  2. #3107
    World Traveller Craig's Avatar
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    Well it is good to see Australia signing a 20 year contract worth $50b to supply China with LPG. I think there is a similar deal with India, but it is only worth $25b.
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  3. #3108
    Hall of Fame Member Johnners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt79 View Post
    clapo believes farmers should stop producing food if they don't continue to receive government assistance and have a govt that pursues protectionist policies.
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  4. #3109
    Hall of Fame Member Johnners's Avatar
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    It's an extreme example, obviously, but afaic it's the ultimate outcome. An ETS is only going to put more pressure on an already struggling primary production sector, and in many cases, it's not inconceivable that it will put a fair amount of farms etc. out of business. Sure I know there's talk that the agricultural sector may be excluded, but seeing as agriculture is such a high input process, business are more than likely going to feel the full effects of it anyway.

    If there is a fall in primary production in Australia, there's obviously got to be an increased amount of produce imported in from overseas Given that farm produce is one of Australia’s larger exports, a fall in produce exports is only going to have a negative effect on the balance of payments which is already causing issues for Australia.

    Aside from the negative impacts on the Australian economy, there's also the issue of what the ETS set out to do in the first place, which is to reduce carbon emissions etc. etc. If we're not producing our own food (or if we're producing a smaller amount), somebody else obviously has to be making up the difference (as i said earlier). China/Taiwan/Thailand etc. are the most likely candidates, and I'd love to hear from anyone willing to argue that such countries are more efficient (from an environmental POV) at producing food than we are here in Australia. In effect, we wouldn't be reducing any carbon emissions, so much as just passing the buck on to others. If anything, there's probably a case to argue that it would actually increase carbon emissions from a global perspective.

    The other issue to address is the fact that we're facing a global food shortage. There's an increasing global population, we're having trouble feeding, and ridiculous schemes such as this one most certainly aren't going to do anything to help that situation. In such a situation, it would be incredibly stupid to do something that means we become more reliant on other countries to produce our food, when we can do it ourselves.

    It honestly scares me that so many people are unaware of the dangers the rural sector in Australia is facing, and how much it could actually (negatively) effect them. Too many people seem to think that as long as we've got Woolies and Coles, she'll be right mate. The food has to come from somewhere, and the sooner more people get a proper understanding of just how primary production works, the better the country will be for it.

    I could go on for hours about it all really (and you may think I’m all just doom and gloom, but imo it is the harsh longer term reality of the situation), but I'll leave it there.


  5. #3110
    World Traveller Craig's Avatar
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  6. #3111
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Potentially hard times for Turnbull and Truss over climate change. It will be hard for the Libs to keep the two kinds of lib (climate change accepters and deniers) in a line if Rudd keeps trying to build consensus that the problem is real AND take action on it. Let alone keeping the Nats in the coalition. Too easy fr Rudd to paint them as obstructionist and out of touch if they oppose him, and too harmful to their support from their current base if they go along. Potential DLP style split on the cards.
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  7. #3112
    International Coach howardj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    Potentially hard times for Turnbull and Truss over climate change. It will be hard for the Libs to keep the two kinds of lib (climate change accepters and deniers) in a line if Rudd keeps trying to build consensus that the problem is real AND take action on it. Let alone keeping the Nats in the coalition. Too easy fr Rudd to paint them as obstructionist and out of touch if they oppose him, and too harmful to their support from their current base if they go along. Potential DLP style split on the cards.
    Why the focus on the Opposition? They're not in Government anymore. They have no power to affect anything.

    This is one of the biggest economic reforms in Australia's history. The press should be asking questions of the Government.

    How many jobs will the ETS cost? Is it worth it for a mere 5% cut in emissions? Can we depend on it to save the Great Barrier Reef? Why is the vast bulk of the money raised being used to compensate households and businesses instead of going into development of green-friendly technology? Is Wilson Tuckey the next opposition leader? Why are big polluters being granted huge concessions?

  8. #3113
    International Coach howardj's Avatar
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    Spot the rogue question.

  9. #3114
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    That's not how the politics play out though Howardj. Most people are concerned by climate change - Rudd can effectively wedge the opposition as being either complicit in what he does or obstructionist in blocking him. Any negative effects will only be felt if the laws get through - until then he can paint the picture that he's got a plan but the ostrich-like Libs are stopping him from implementing it. The
    economics of it all are too complicated for either side to make inroads on the what ifs - they'll be able to muddy and spin the situation to their advantage.

    He can rely on the Greens to demand some scary concessions to vote for it and suggest the Libs are forcing him into the arms of extremists.

    Essentially the pressure is on the Libs because unlike the ALP they don't have a position or internal consensus on whether climate change is actually a problem. Like it or not, Rudd has got a plan he's trying to introduce. The Libs either need to come up with workable amendmnts and then vote it through or be prepared to be blamed for the lack of progress in getting some kind of scheme in place. And they're too divided to decide which they prefer.

    Meanwhile, everytime one of them says they're convinced of the problem they alienate a chunk of their base, and everytime another guy says it's all rubbish, they alienate another chunk of the electorate. And the climate change sceptic chunk of the population is shrinking all the time.

  10. #3115
    International Coach howardj's Avatar
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    I agree with the points that you're making, and they're well made ones. However, I just don't think the public (which consists mainly of politically disengaged people) give two hoots about the Opposition (Liberal or Labor) until election year (and then only for a small window). The media just seems obsessed with the Opposition out of all proportion to the public interest in them.

    However, yes, Turnbull does have to be careful of being seen as Mr. No. He should say that he agrees with an ETS, but just not Rudd's one. That gives him the best hope of having a bob each way - i.e. cashing in on ETS-induced lost jobs and rising prices, and yet still appearing green.
    Last edited by howardj; 22-08-2009 at 12:18 AM.

  11. #3116
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howardj View Post
    I agree with the points that you're making, and they're well made ones. However, I just don't think the public (which consists mainly of politically disengaged people) give two hoots about the Opposition (Liberal or Labor) until election year (and then only for a small window). The media just seems obsessed with the Opposition out of all proportion to the public interest in them.

    However, yes, Turnbull does have to be careful of being seen as Mr. No. He should say that he agrees with an ETS, but just not Rudd's one. That gives him the best hope of having a bob each way - i.e. cashing in on ETS-induced lost jobs and rising prices, and yet still appearing green.
    Cry me a river. We had the same thing for 11 years.

    When you win, there's no leadership speculation. When you lose, the media always has the sniff of blood in the water, even if there isn't. Unfortunately it's part of the gig of opposition, and one of the reasons why it's a **** job.

    As for the ETS, no one should be fooled into thinking that if Rudd uses it as an excuse to call an election, then the campaign will be fought on it. It will be an isue, but by no means the only one, and possibly not even the major one. I'd have thought "we're not in a recession and the rest of the world's gone to the ****ter - who do you trust?" might figure quite prominently tbh.

  12. #3117
    International Coach howardj's Avatar
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    This reform is bigger than the GST. Yet there has been absolutely no details or analysis of the specifics of Rudd's plan. Contrast that with the scrutiny applied to the GST and its introduction. That the media are constantly obsessed with the Coalition's position on the issue is farcical.

    It's quite normal and appropriate for them to focus on a troubled Opposition Leader (in this case Turbull) but to actually be concerned with their policies more than those of the Government is puzzling.

    Anyway, it's normal and quite healthy for the Libs and the Nats to be more divided in Opposition and look after their own constituencies. There is no need for them to both support an ETS, or for both to oppose it.
    Last edited by howardj; 23-08-2009 at 03:43 AM.

  13. #3118
    Cricketer Of The Year James90's Avatar
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    Della Bosca gone.

    NSW Labor will struggle to pick up 10 seats at this rate.
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  14. #3119
    Hall of Fame Member Johnners's Avatar
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    Anyone know if they have found Tim Holding yet?

  15. #3120
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clapo View Post
    Anyone know if they have found Tim Holding yet?
    Yeah, just heard he's been found alive and well. They're winching him out once they've picked Della Bosca up to winch in.



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