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Thread: The Australian politics thread

  1. #2746
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    tbf, that's not a decision based in economics. a) Defence and security and the economy are separate issues. b) the stimulus effect of employing a soldier or a nurse is presumably much the same, as is the effect of manufacturing submarines, or purchasing medical equipment.
    When you've just taken a 5% hit in the polls which coincided with the arrival of some boatloads of asylum seekers, it's really no surprise you come out the next week and announce an increase in defence spending, is it?
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  2. #2747
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Still not a decision made on economic grounds.
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  3. #2748
    International Captain Ausage's Avatar
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    So sick of hearing the words "temporary deficit". A surplus is just a surplus and a deficit should just be a deficit. I know they're just trying to convince/remind everyone that we're only going into deficit due to decreased revenue/increased spending due to the international recession, but I wish they wouldn't try and confuse the public that way. I know I know, it's a politicians job to spread confusion I guess it would also help if the public zeitgeist had the presence of mind to realize that running a deficit is actually both unavoidable and desirable at a time like this.

    I'm with Top Cat on the subject of voter apathy though. Most people I know are either completely disinterested, (to the point that I'll get a few calls every election day from friends asking who to vote for) or so blindly biased one way or the other that it's difficult to take them seriously. A few exceptions obviously.

  4. #2749
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    Still not a decision made on economic grounds.
    For sure.

    It shocks and amazes some people (not saying you BTW) that governments make most decisions for non-economic reasons. But they do, because it's politics, not economics. You can bet your life the people behind the scenes in the government are well aware that despite feeding the public nothing but bad economic forecasts and news for nigh on 9 months, the only time the government took a hit which wasn't just a statistical blip (ie within the MOE of 2% in opinion polls) came one week after that boat sunk up north.


  5. #2750
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    For sure.

    It shocks and amazes some people (not saying you BTW) that governments make most decisions for non-economic reasons. But they do, because it's politics, not economics. You can bet your life the people behind the scenes in the government are well aware that despite feeding the public nothing but bad economic forecasts and news for nigh on 9 months, the only time the government took a hit which wasn't just a statistical blip (ie within the MOE of 2% in opinion polls) came one week after that boat sunk up north.
    They might also sincerely be concerned to try and ensure we can look after ourselves in a fight, in case it comes to that, y'know?

    The White Paper on Defence has been months in preparing and was always going to be released when it was.
    Last edited by Matt79; 06-05-2009 at 06:30 PM.

  6. #2751
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    @ Ausage - But there is a difference between borrowing money in the short term with the intention of buying something/maintaining something that will help you succeed long term vs planning to run at a deficit.

    The Australian political scene has a hysteria about public debt that is bizarre to say the leas given how happy we all are to mortgage ourselves to the hilt and max out our cards. Plenty of serious economists will argue that it can at times be better to sometimes wear the cost of a deficit than to cripple yourself trying to stay in surplus.

    Obviously in general it's better to have a surplus, but you have to be prepared to react to your environment and a simplistic dogma like 'deficit = disaster' doesn't help do that.
    Last edited by Matt79; 06-05-2009 at 06:29 PM.

  7. #2752
    International Coach howardj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero View Post
    Hey guys, something I've been wondering a fair while. This thread is far more active than any political thread for other countries (aside from international disputes etc). Is it a cultural thing in Australia that politics is something large amounts of the population take an interest in? Or is it just something here on CW.

    Brits seem less inclined to discuss politics, for whatever reason
    Much less complext than that.

    It's because the Labor Party are so horrible...I can't help but give them a spray at least once per week.

    Seriously though, I don't talk about politics other than with close friends or family, so this thread offers a good anonymous outlet to discuss things. And, on balance, the people in this thread are fair-minded and not abusive - a rarity in political discourse.

  8. #2753
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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  9. #2754
    International Captain Ausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    @ Ausage - But there is a difference between borrowing money in the short term with the intention of buying something/maintaining something that will help you succeed long term vs planning to run at a deficit.
    Is there? I mean at the moment they're not planning to be in surplus at the end of this financial year, so they're planning to be in deficit presumably. I'm sure they're planning (or at least praying) to be in surplus again in a few years time, and they have every right to claim mitigating circumstances for it, but imo a deficit is a deficit as a spade is a spade. In two years time we wont be saying that the finances in 08/09 were originally run at a deficit, but they later reverted back into a surplus.

    Totally agree with the other two paragraphs though.

  10. #2755
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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  11. #2756
    Cricketer Of The Year James90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    While its traditional for a government to beat up the "toughness" of a budget before the night, I think Rudd and Tanner have been pretty good in talking to people about the potential direness of the economic situation, and pretty honest about what the effect of taking on debt is. There are worse things than a budget in temporary deficit.

    Swan doesn't appear particularly impressive to date, although you have to be careful in judging someone's effectiveness as a decision and policy maker based on their appearance in the media. However, I think Labor is very lucky to have Lindsay Tanner in the Finance seat. He seems to be the perfect man for the job and in all the in-depth interviews, as well as short grabs I've seen him on, he's given the impression of being right on top of his stuff. I know Gillard prefers her super-portfolio, but you think that the government would be better with her as Treasurer.
    The Labor Party has a deal federally and in the states whereby the Prime Minister/Premier is in the Right and the Deputy PM/Premier is in the Left. That's the situation with Beasley/Macklin, Rudd/Gillard, Rees/Tebbutt etc. Alternatively, in the Upper Houses, the leader is from the Left and their deputy from the Right.

    Treasurer is also seen as a training ground for the next PM, so it's unlikely you'll see someone from the Left (Gillard or Tanner) to be put into such a position. I don't necessarily think Swan will succeed Rudd because I think he's a bit like Costello. The public don't mind him as a Treasurer but wouldn't want him in the top job. If someone like Bill Shorten becomes Treasurer then you'll know why.
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  12. #2757
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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  13. #2758
    International Coach howardj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
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  14. #2759
    International Vice-Captain Redbacks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    </insert 95% confidence interval>

  15. #2760
    Hall of Fame Member age_master's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    The White Paper on Defence has been months in preparing and was always going to be released when it was.
    I thought it was due a few months ago.
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