The Australian politics thread

[pasag]

Originally Posted by Craig

Seen 14 from him

A sight to behold tbh.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by pasag

Nah, fair enough. The point is though the laws would be an absolute farce, you can't put your own music on your Ipod, not to mention an utter violation of your rights, read the article and you'll see how barbaric it seems.

Oh yeah I agree now.

I have always found it funny how company's object to their music/videos etc. being copied yet it is fine to buy blank CD's etc.

You could never enforce it really but this point:

Originally Posted by article

As the bill currently stands, even if you genuinely didn't know you were breaking the law, you could still be slapped with large fines and even taken to court, Mr Clapperton and Mr Fitzgerald said.

How would that be proved or would the companies really care?

But wouldn't the fines be more relevant if somebody was coping it and renting/selling it to friends etc., you know like a dodgy buisness deal?

[FaaipDeOiad]

Originally Posted by Craig

Fair enough on both counts.

Although I was trying to ask from a different perpestive (the one about the copyright laws), more like I was trying to think/ask from outside the square and if he was in their shoes but I probably made a hash of it in the process. Then again I'm not like other people who have set views on a subject no matter what, in that I try to think of both angles.

You get me now?

I've got no problem necessarily with artists seeking to enforce copyright protections on their own artwork. That's their business, and that of their record label or publisher or whatever, and they can do what they like. The proposed laws are quite different. Here's a section from the article Gelman linked and an addition to the quote he provided:

Originally Posted by the age

Section 132AL(2) of the bill provides that a person commits an "indictable offence" if they possess "a device, intending it to be used for making an infringing copy of a work or other subject-matter".

This is the most serious offence for an individual technology user, as it means they've intentionally broken copyright law. It is subject to a penalty of five years in jail, a fine of up to $65,000, or both.

The "device" cited could be an iPod, or any other piece of technology that could be used to infringe copyright, such as any MP3 player, a camera phone, a VCR or a DVD recorder.

Under proposed new copyright laws, loading tracks onto a music player, which have been copied from a CD, would be classified as infringing copyright. This would apply even if that CD was legitimately purchased.

It's absolutely ridiculous. Not only is it practically unenforcable except in the most selective fashion imaginable, it's absurdly over the top and targets common users who actually support artists and the music industry. To put it simply, if I buy a CD, copy the tracks on to my PC and load them onto my ipod so I can listen to them away from home, I'm committing a criminal offence and could recieve any number of draconian punishments. I can't see how anyone could support such a law, whether it would be enforced or not.

[pasag]

Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad

As you say, it wouldn't have any impact on drug use, and even if it did, "pipes and smoking implements" can be used for things other than crystal meth. It's basically like banning rolling papers because people use them to roll joints, or shops refusing to sell lighters to people under 18, and other such absurd laws which have been suggested in the past.

The real irony of the matter is that surveys and studies came out just today that marijuana use has dropped amongst young people.

[FaaipDeOiad]

Originally Posted by pasag

The real irony of the matter is that surveys and studies came out just today that marijuana use has dropped amongst young people.

It's all meth hysteria these days, geez. Don't you keep up with the latest scare tactics? You're the worst right-winger I've ever seen.

[pasag]

Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad

It's all meth hysteria these days, geez. Don't you keep up with the latest scare tactics? You're the worst right-winger I've ever seen.

[marc71178]

Originally Posted by pasag

Sale? What are you talking about? It's a takeover. It's a public company. This whole hysteria is abit rich tbh. The company is on the stock market, obviously it's possible for it to be taken out of Australians hands. I'll admit it's slightly sad, but people complaining about it and calling for government intervention are so out of touch it's not funny.

Reminds me of the anti-Glazer muppets when he bought Manure.

One of their chants was "united not for sale"

[Mister Wright]

Originally Posted by Slow Love™

Yeah, don't even get me started on contemporary digital copyright and intellectual property legislation. It's a complete joke, and we should oppose just about all of it. It's complete madness, and freedoms we take for granted are being legislated against right under our noses.

That's Howard for 'ya.

[Matteh]

Originally Posted by pasag

The real irony of the matter is that surveys and studies came out just today that marijuana use has dropped amongst young people.

Certainly hasn't amongst the middle-class kids over here.

[Slow Love™]

Originally Posted by pasag

At this rate, what will be legal ffs?

This actually made me laugh yesterday, 'cause it's one of the frequent analogies used when it comes to technology like file-sharing or reverse engineering. The idea that something should be banned because it can be used for illegal purposes, when it can also serve a completely legal purpose. I guess governments are looking to close those "inconsistencies".

Actually this is one of my main beefs with third-way Labor govts these days (and it works just as well talking about Labor in the UK as much as it does over here at State level). The erosion of long-standing wisdom being overturned due to various moral panics. Somebody got away with a crime? Don't blame the system's failure in this instance to make a decent case, get rid of double jeopardy so we can make sure it doesn't happen again. Bongs, pipes have been on sale for years in an environment of even soft drugs like marijuana being illegal, but have an "ice" scare, and Sweetie Beattie has to ban all the parephenalia. Have a crisis when it comes to a particular group of people being ostracised, and make criticism of religion and "blasphemy" have legal consequences. Just this constant tampering of laws on the fly, often with real negative consequences for such short-term, hysterical reasons.

[pasag]

Yeh, spot on.

Labor ftw tomorrow although it might be close, might be a landslide can't tell from here. Hopefully Baillieu will stay on though. Doesn't seem that bad although he loves Kennett which goes against him.

[FaaipDeOiad]

Originally Posted by Slow Love™

This actually made me laugh yesterday, 'cause it's one of the frequent analogies used when it comes to technology like file-sharing or reverse engineering. The idea that something should be banned because it can be used for illegal purposes, when it can also serve a completely legal purpose. I guess governments are looking to close those "inconsistencies".

Actually this is one of my main beefs with third-way Labor govts these days (and it works just as well talking about Labor in the UK as much as it does over here at State level). The erosion of long-standing wisdom being overturned due to various moral panics. Somebody got away with a crime? Don't blame the system's failure in this instance to make a decent case, get rid of double jeopardy so we can make sure it doesn't happen again. Bongs, pipes have been on sale for years in an environment of even soft drugs like marijuana being illegal, but have an "ice" scare, and Sweetie Beattie has to ban all the parephenalia. Have a crisis when it comes to a particular group of people being ostracised, and make criticism of religion and "blasphemy" have legal consequences. Just this constant tampering of laws on the fly, often with real negative consequences for such short-term, hysterical reasons.

Yeah. It really makes me sick when ALP governments do this sort of thing. You certainly can't rely on the Coalition to stand up to them on something like this, so basically it's the fringe parties and nothing else. Rule by the angry and uninformed is never going to be anything other than disasterous, and that's what this kind of tabloid pop politics amounts to.

[Mister Wright]

If you want to stop people smoking marijuana you're going to have to ban Tally-Hos, Apples, plastic bottles, buckets, pipes, hoses, cigarettes and anything else I can't think of off the top of my head. Good luck!

EDIT: Sarah Lee cake, muffin and brownie mixes.

[pasag]

So...Bracks won.

[Slow Love™]

It was actually a pretty startlingly poor show for the Libs. I thought Bailleu ran a fairly good campaign, as well. Gonna make it very tough even for the next one.

Watching Robert Doyle on the TV coverage licking his lips and handing the media (and the ALP) various talking points like the primary vote falling etc was particularly unedifying.