Veil or No Veil????

[godofcricket]

I have been hearing this for the last week, theres huge debate going on this every day in UK. I personally feel that it should be left to ones personal opinion on what they want to wear and what they dont. If its democracy, then why are people forcing the muslim women????

[Buddhmaster]

No veil, but I'm a racist, so what do I know?

[sideshowtim]

It's part of their religious tradition, why should they be forced to take them off?

[pasag]

Isn't the case in point where she was a teacher and the kids couldn't understand what she was on about?

[Jungle Jumbo]

Originally Posted by sideshowtim

It's part of their religious tradition, why should they be forced to take them off?

It's now well documented that the veil is optional - it is tradtional, but cultural tradition rather than religous tradition. The whole debate has been rumbling quietly now for the last couple of years, and came to the fore again recently when Jack Straw asked some Muslim women to remove their veils at a conference because he couldn't see their faces. The other day it was announced that a Muslim teacher was wearing it in class. Personally I don't care whether it is a democracy or not, people have the right to talk to a face rather than a piece of fabric.

[Langeveldt]

Originally Posted by Jungle Jumbo

It's now well documented that the veil is optional - it is tradtional, but cultural tradition rather than religous tradition. The whole debate has been rumbling quietly now for the last couple of years, and came to the fore again recently when Jack Straw asked some Muslim women to remove their veils at a conference because he couldn't see their faces. The other day it was announced that a Muslim teacher was wearing it in class. Personally I don't care whether it is a democracy or not, people have the right to talk to a face rather than a piece of fabric.

Agreed, When we go to the middle east we abide by their traditions (not drinking alcohol, taking shoes off in holy place).. Why on earth do they cry foul when we expect them to abide by ours?

[Anil]

Originally Posted by Jungle Jumbo

It's now well documented that the veil is optional - it is tradtional, but cultural tradition rather than religous tradition. The whole debate has been rumbling quietly now for the last couple of years, and came to the fore again recently when Jack Straw asked some Muslim women to remove their veils at a conference because he couldn't see their faces. The other day it was announced that a Muslim teacher was wearing it in class. Personally I don't care whether it is a democracy or not, people have the right to talk to a face rather than a piece of fabric.

first of all, the question of such rights come up only if it's a democracy and if "people" have the right to talk to a face instead of a piece of fabric, what about the rights of the woman behind the fabric, of course if she is wearing the fabric voluntarily...?

[Pratters]

Originally Posted by Jungle Jumbo

people have the right to talk to a face rather than a piece of fabric.

Yes, you should have the choice regarding talking to people or not who wear veils or not. However, the given people have the choice regarding wearing a veil or choosing to talk to people who have selectiveness like the one you highlighted. By outlawing, you are denying free will to the veil wearer while the person is not harming any one.

[Pratters]

Originally Posted by Langeveldt

Agreed, When we go to the middle east we abide by their traditions (not drinking alcohol, taking shoes off in holy place).. Why on earth do they cry foul when we expect them to abide by ours?

Just because some countries restrict free will regarding facets, others shouldn't follow suit. It is not us versus them. It is giving people free will to choose or not provided they are not harming any one or any thing else.

[Anil]

Originally Posted by Langeveldt

Agreed, When we go to the middle east we abide by their traditions (not drinking alcohol, taking shoes off in holy place).. Why on earth do they cry foul when we expect them to abide by ours?

those societies that you refer to are not free, and you have the choice not to go there....the "tradition" in a free society is the exercise of your free will, is it not?

[Langeveldt]

Originally Posted by Anil

those societies that you refer to are not free, and you have the choice not to go there....the "tradition" in a free society is the exercise of your free will, is it not?

True, however nobodys tried to outlaw the veil AFAIK.. Mr Straw simply politely asked if they would remove it. Why it caused so much offence is beyond me, no harm in asking, or is there?..

[godofcricket]

Originally Posted by Jungle Jumbo

The whole debate has been rumbling quietly now for the last couple of years, and came to the fore again recently when Jack Straw asked some Muslim women to remove their veils at a conference because he couldn't see their faces. The other day it was announced that a Muslim teacher was wearing it in class. Personally I don't care whether it is a democracy or not, people have the right to talk to a face rather than a piece of fabric.

Well u have only got one side of argument, your thinking about those "other people", what about the women whos actually the target of all this???? True people have got the right to talk to a face, but if a women feels more comfortable talking to someone with the fabric on, then it shouldnt be a big issue.

[godofcricket]

Originally Posted by Langeveldt

True, however nobodys tried to outlaw the veil AFAIK.. Mr Straw simply politely asked if they would remove it. Why it caused so much offence is beyond me, no harm in asking, or is there?..

Nope, but it has created a big issue, not only did he just say it to her, but as far as i know he wants every women to atleast remove the veil so proper communication could be achieved, as he cant communicate without seeing anyones face

[Langeveldt]

Originally Posted by godofcricket

Nope, but it has created a big issue, not only did he just say it to her, but as far as i know he wants every women to atleast remove the veil so proper communication could be achieved, as he cant communicate without seeing anyones face

I dont have much experience in it, but surely it cant be as easy to hear what they are saying? Like listening to a surgeon with a mask on.. And if he mistook what they were saying, he'd probably offend them even more

[Anil]

Originally Posted by Langeveldt

True, however nobodys tried to outlaw the veil AFAIK.. Mr Straw simply politely asked if they would remove it. Why it caused so much offence is beyond me, no harm in asking, or is there?..

the concept of the veil is that only the woman's husband is allowed to see her face or something of the sort(our muslim members can correct me if i've misstated anything)...now that might sound barbaric to you and me and a lot of other people....but if a woman believes in that and wears the veil voluntarily, wouldn't it cause offence if she is asked to reveal her face to other men...? when the woman is against it and is being forced to do it, that's another story altogether....