Paedophile Political Party

[cpr]

Wheras thats a fair argument Faaip, i personally dont agree with it. I feel that although it isnt that uncommon, i personally believe that in most of the cases occuring at that age, the decision isnt one based on emotional events such as love, more physical aspects such as looks/status. Now thats not going to be the case every time, so i dont agree that such strict enforcement is needed (infact, here in the Uk its a case of the police will only bring a case when the minor is over 14 i think, if requested by the minors parents. Statuatory rape is only if they are under 13, after that other factors would be considered in court). However, i tend to feel that there should be some sort of protection still offered by society, because although many youngsters enter such relationships at a young age for the wrong reasons, the elder does still have a moral obligation not to take advantage, and so there should be some sort of system to deter elders taking advantage.

Now my argument, on the surface, is similar to that that C_C is implying (under about 5 pages of arguing)... Its after the age of 16 that we differ. Personally i believe that most females have a fair amount of maturity to make these decisions themselves. Sure some dont, but more likely than not those who dont, probably never will, but we cant legislate against such things forever, there has to be a point where the human is allowed freedom of choice, and society has to stop controlling. I personally believe that 16 is the age for it to be....

[Goughy]

but it also curtails the activities of sick 40-something freaks who wanna hump an 18 year old.

What is sick about that? Mens opinions do not change that much as they grow older. If they found someone attractive when they were 19 they will probably find the same just as attractive at 40.

Both ages are adults and are you seriously suggesting that there is something wrong with a guy (you do not die inside as you get older you know) wanting to sleep with a hard-bodied, flat stomached, firm breasted young woman.

I think you should wait until you get a little older before you start calling a large section of the adult population sick.

I think it would be fair to say that 18 yr old women are wasted on 18 yr old men.

EDIT- Just to make clear. Im still in my twenties so Im not trying to defend my position as if I was 40+ and I was talking about real life experiences. I just think many men stay adolesent in their mind and are therefore attracted to younger women.

[marc71178]

LoL.
Look- i am not responsible for your insecurities, so dont project em on me.
If you are an ignorant idiot, go rectify that instead of being a total moron with nothing except personal attacks to contribute towards something. But then again, your 'jilted woman with twisted panty' hollerings is well known on this board i guess.

I'm not insecure, just sick of you claiming to know everything about everything and presenting opinion as fact.

As for the personal attacks, well I think you've shown here far more than I have.

[C_C]

I'm not insecure, just sick of you claiming to know everything about everything and presenting opinion as fact.

As for the personal attacks, well I think you've shown here far more than I have.

Keep living in your cuckoo land- i am not the guy who specialises in making snippety 'old jilted lady' sorta remarks and the bugger off !

[C_C]

I also went on to say that at 45, i wouldnt complain about 18 year olds..... You then took the argument all the way back to 15, which completely belied the point of the post, because at such a young age, we all agree with you, no one is disagreeing about that

There aint much difference between an 18 year old and a 15-16 year old in terms of maturity- atleast, for the bulk of the population. I think the age limits are too low. And no, i would think that if a 45 year old finds an 18 year old appealing, then he is far more juvenile than he thinks. This kinda mentality is far more prevalent in the 'west' than anywhere else and i think its got to do with lack of independent ethics (ie, ethics independent from religion).
Just because the law says 18 year olds are fair game and 16 year olds arnt not doesnt mean that an 18 year old is much more developed than a 16 year old.

but its not just 'The west' thats exploiting it. Its every perv in every country.

You'd find that sex tourism is overwhelmingly dominated by American pervs than any other state on this planet.

. I have seen one 35 year old guy try and commit suicide after his 2 year relationship with a now 18 year old girl ended, because whilst she realised she wasnt ready for such an adult commitment to love, and wanted to move on. He had nowhere to move onto, because from his side the relationship was one of love. Dont tell me that its the younger ones who are the victims time and time again, because i can assure you that it happens just as much the other way too

I find it to be totally the other way round in majority of cases- atleast in north america and europe- the younger one is the starry eyed one about love while the older one is the one chasing the kitty and they know it. There is far more predatory relationships where the younger one gets shafted than other way round and i think you'll find that police records in States or Canada confirms this.

[C_C]

What is sick about that? Mens opinions do not change that much as they grow older. If they found someone attractive when they were 19 they will probably find the same just as attractive at 40.

Fortunately for most people, sex is not just about the kitty or the snake. Its spiritual and/or emotional as well. And as such, i find it profoundly sick that some guy would actively chase a girl who is the same age as his daughter ( or would be if he had a daughter).

[cpr]

I find it to be totally the other way round in majority of cases- atleast in north america and europe- the younger one is the starry eyed one about love while the older one is the one chasing the kitty and they know it. There is far more predatory relationships where the younger one gets shafted than other way round and i think you'll find that police records in States or Canada confirms this.

That is a rather 'starry eyed' view of it to be honest. Yes we'd all love to belive in youth and innocence. Its not true. Especially is such a morally decadant place as this west you are telling us about, where the youth are exposed to sexuality far too early (but still maintaince such a cute naivity to life in your view)

And sure the police records back you up. Because the 35 year old man is really gonna file a police complaint when his young lover jilts him. As if the humiliation isnt enough. Those police records tie into another part of culture i cant stand, where its so easy for the upset female to cry abuse and really **** a mans life up

[Goughy]

Fortunately for most people, sex is not just about the kitty or the snake.

Really, err ok. I would argue that even with the metal aspects of a relationship it still comes down to this, but hey if you can speak for most people then I am obviously wrong and you are right.

[marc71178]

Keep living in your cuckoo land- i am not the guy who specialises in making snippety 'old jilted lady' sorta remarks and the bugger off !

Can someone translate that into English for me?

[James]

C_C & Marc, please don't resort to name calling, etc. It doesn't come off well on either of you. If you can't have a proper discussion about it, add each other to your relavant 'ignore lists'.

[Shounak]

I think it would be fair to say that 18 yr old women are wasted on 18 yr old men.

Speak for yourself buster..

[Sir Redman]

There aint much difference between an 18 year old and a 15-16 year old in terms of maturity- atleast, for the bulk of the population.

That is completely wrong. Have a look at any high school anywhere and you'll see a massive difference between the year 10/11s (15-16 year olds) and the year 13s (18 year olds), in terms of both physical and mental maturity. 15-16 year olds are still adolescents, are in the middle of puberty and still have a lot of developing to do. 18 year olds, on the other hand, are far more developed (especially physically) and in some cases will have reached adulthood already.

[C_C]

That is a rather 'starry eyed' view of it to be honest. Yes we'd all love to belive in youth and innocence. Its not true. Especially is such a morally decadant place as this west you are telling us about, where the youth are exposed to sexuality far too early (but still maintaince such a cute naivity to life in your view)

And sure the police records back you up. Because the 35 year old man is really gonna file a police complaint when his young lover jilts him. As if the humiliation isnt enough. Those police records tie into another part of culture i cant stand, where its so easy for the upset female to cry abuse and really **** a mans life up

You realise that while urban locales in areas like US, Canada, Britain, Australia etc. are pretty liberal, the overwhelming majority of the rural areas are quite conservative ?
Perhaps i am erroneously applying a north american phenomenon to the entire western world but most of english speaking west is pretty similar in the urban-rural divide in terms of conservativeness and as such, represents the bulk of the western population.

[C_C]

That is completely wrong. Have a look at any high school anywhere and you'll see a massive difference between the year 10/11s (15-16 year olds) and the year 13s (18 year olds), in terms of both physical and mental maturity. 15-16 year olds are still adolescents, are in the middle of puberty and still have a lot of developing to do. 18 year olds, on the other hand, are far more developed (especially physically) and in some cases will have reached adulthood already.

How are 18 year olds any more developed physically than 16 year olds ? Most girls are of childbearing capability by the time they are 15-16 and that doesnt change one iota when they are 18. The really young girls who have higher prevalance of botched deliveries/mortality rates(mother and/or child) are usually in the 11-14 range.

But while few 18 year olds are mature enough to be adults, i've not noticed any significant difference in maturity between an 18 year old and a 16 year old.
I think for most people , the difference between mid/late 20s and mid/late teens is a quantum leap while its not that big in 2-3 year sample periods.

People have this view that ' we are once youngsters....then we mature up and 'ripen' and bang! we are adults'.
My friend, growing is a life-long experience.

[Top_Cat]

But while few 18 year olds are mature enough to be adults, i've not noticed any significant difference in maturity between an 18 year old and a 16 year old.

I noticed massive differences from my frame of reference (using what I would characterise as factors explaning 'maturity', anyway). When I was 16, girls in my peer group would talk to me and, well, that's about it. When I went to Uni (i.e. turned 18), the situation was very, very different and the result was this ------>

As for looking back as someone 25+ and regretting anything, there's nothing I regret sexually. I made plenty of mistakes (and dodged a few bullets along the way) but I reckon my level of maturity is reflected in that and not in how many books I read or some sort of "Wow I'm 25 and suddenly understand the world and everything in it!" epiphany.

Fortunately for most people, sex is not just about the kitty or the snake. Its spiritual and/or emotional as well. And as such, i find it profoundly sick that some guy would actively chase a girl who is the same age as his daughter ( or would be if he had a daughter).

There's a few value judgements in that, mate. The first is that a relationship between an 18-year-old and a 40-year-old is based in sex (not the case in totality) and the other is your description of it as 'sick'. Me personally, as a 27 year-old, I've found profound (and insurmountable, ultimately) maturity differences between myself and the 19-22 years olds I've met of late but this does not mean my experience is able to be generalised to everyone. Bearing in mind that these are a result of my own judgements; not objective at all.

Incidentally, there has been almost no work done in the area of maturity (certainly none I could see in a quick OVID scan) let alone sexual maturity so characterising those at any age as 'mature' or 'immature' is largely a value judgement based in social dogma, as is any charcterisation of any age difference as 'too great'. I would say that a big reason for this is in the unbelievable difficulty in the operationalisation of the term 'mature' for one, let alone 'seuxally mature' let alone a look at quantifying and characterising the 'maturity difference' (how do we know it's even age-based?) let alone determining whether ANY age difference is harmful let alone 'harmful'! I would also venture to say that it's because of this that we don't see any age difference reflected in laws. One needs to determine what makes someone mature before we can start dictating congress between different groups of varying maturity levels.

There HAS, however, been MUCH work done on successful relationships between people and the available literature seems to suggest quite often that a big factor in 'sucessful' relationships has been rooted in shared values, independent of age/perceived maturity, etc. Murray, Holmes and Griffin (1996) even go on to say that positive illusions about someone (i.e. denial of their faults) result in successful relationships more often than those which are rooted in reality! (God, I hope they're wrong..... I have many questions about this particular study's external validity) The point is that the current work is still focussing on what works in relationships and that work on abusive relationships is still somewhat sparse. What a relationship actually IS remains open to question too. So attempts to characterise relationships are not based in objectivity but are almost certainly based in subjectivity.

So yeah, if you want to stick to your peer-group then that's fine but your characterisations above are your opinion/value judgements (the product of which is still not really well defined; is it nature or nurture or both?) and you'll be hard-pressed to find objective evidence to support your position.

Notice I'm not saying your opinion is 'wrong', though. There could be an explosion of research in the next 20 years which proves you exactly right. The point is, NO-ONE knows.

Those police records tie into another part of culture i cant stand, where its so easy for the upset female to cry abuse and really **** a mans life up

Indeed although a couple of things need to be mentioned. It's not 'easy' per se and certainly the proportion of 'jilted lovers' reports are pretty low. That's because a look at the evidence usually weeds out quite a few before they result in a Police Incident Report. Those that reach the status of a report usually do have SOME corroboration at least. Second, if someone does reach the stage of going to report a crime of this nature, it's usually either true or they are SERIOUSLY determined to hurt someone else by making it up (and we do get both).

But apart from that, indeed it's damaging. If it's false and an incident report has been raised, that report, even when proven to be crapola, will always be on the dude's file. People doing employment Police checks only ever get access to convictions so it doesn't affect those but it's still on record which some other agencies can get hold of. Also, if it does reach court, well anyone here who's ever been to court will tell you that even when sure of your innocence, the experience is mortifying. And if anyone you know finds out, even if exhonerated, some mud does stick in the minds of those people even if they don't like to admit it. Even false reports destroy families.