Shocking new information on the London tube shooting

[Slow Love™]

If this turns out to be substantiated, it really IS shocking.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/war-on...958126875.html

Officers trailed Mr de Menezes as he boarded a bus to the Stockwell tube station.

Contrary to subsequent reports, he was not wear- ing a bulky coat or carrying a bag.

The leaked material includes photographs of Mr de Menezes' bloodstained body inside the train carriage, from which it can clearly be seen that he is wearing a close-fitting denim jacket and a light T-shirt.

And on arrival at the Underground station, he did not vault the ticket barriers — as subsequently claimed — to evade his plain-clothes pursuers.

Instead, he used his season ticket to get through the barrier, collected a free newspaper and proceeded calmly down the escalators, breaking into a run only when he saw that a train was preparing to depart.

On boarding the train, he was approached by pursuing plain-clothes police officers. One seized him while a second discharged 11 shots from a pistol at point-blank range.

A witness statement from one of the officers on the train claims that he grabbed Mr de Menezes around the body, pinioning his arms, while another officer fired at the man from a distance of about 30 centimetres.

The officer's statement, perhaps the most damaging of all for Scotland Yard, invites the conclusion that the eight bullets that hit Mr de Menezes — seven of which hit him in the head — were an overreaction to a suspect who had already been overpowered.

Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair, a popular London figure who told reporters after the shooting that Mr de Menezes was challenged and refused to obey police instructions, was not available for comment yesterday.

Despite the release of closed-circuit TV footage showing the July 7 and July 21 bombing suspects, police have never released images of Mr de Menezes to support their claims that he had been wearing a bulky jacket and running from police. Scotland Yard and the Blair Government both remained silent on the revelations last night.

[Slow Love™]

What's scariest about this is the information that was released immediately after the event (and just how detailed it was). If what's being reported now is true, this has been a cover-up of frightening proportions.

This is exactly why people have to be so careful in approving such measures without question.

[Anil]

not surprised really if it is true...are they going to continue this shoot first, ask questions later policy in the hope that once in a while they will hit a terrorist?

[marc71178]

What I don't understand is that the reports of the jumping the barriers etc came from eye witnesses.

Also, there were people on the train, but not one of them has mentioned anything contrary to the line released at the time.

[Slow Love™]

Originally Posted by marc71178

What I don't understand is that the reports of the jumping the barriers etc came from eye witnesses.

Also, there were people on the train, but not one of them has mentioned anything contrary to the line released at the time.

Well, this stuff can be very tricky. The witness concerned described a Pakistani man jumping the barriers, and as we've seen, the guy really didn't look Pakistani. Perhaps he saw the cops, saw somebody else jump the barriers, and extrapolated. Perhaps he was a glory hunter. Who knows?

Beyond this, as far as I remember, the people on the train said he ran on, looked panicked, and was shot at close range. This info doesn't contradict that account so much, it mostly contradicts the information prior to him running to get on the train.

You do have to be careful with this speculating on the report at this early stage, although I must say that the photo doesn't look good, and it sounds like the information is coming from within the police department (an officer at the scene) and from an independent report. Here's some more info at the Guardian - it really looks quite bad. And if it's legit, I really think the Police Commissioner's head must roll.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlo...550815,00.html

[BoyBrumby]

It doesn't look good, does it? I'm loathe to speculate without knowing the full facts, but reading that report it does sound as if the Met have displayed appalling cynicism in allowing (at best) misleading information to be circulated. Smacks very much of "media management".

If, in the fullness of time, it transpires that an armed officer has shot an unarmed man who may well have been practically under arrest I think he should be made to account for his actions, possibly in a court of law.

& I actually think Brazil is quite within her rights to demand a few answers too. I dread to think of the furore if an innocent Brit was shot 7 times in the head at point blank range by Brazilian police.

[lord_of_darkness]

Oh god.. this is sure gonna turn OT into another heated debate..

[sledger]

and all the MPs at this moment are off on yet another holiday, nice.

[Pothas]

Yes this is really not good and i really did at first i thougt it was an understanable if terible mistake this makes it far worse and worrying

[Dasa]

Honestly, this doesn't surprise me at all. The original story made no sense - it was contrary to everything the family said about de Menezes.

Originally Posted by marc71178

What I don't understand is that the reports of the jumping the barriers etc came from eye witnesses.

Also, there were people on the train, but not one of them has mentioned anything contrary to the line released at the time.

I've heard stories similar to the now-revealed one circulating around the internet for some time since the event. Of course, the 'net isn't somewhere you go for accurate information but the fact that stories very much like the now-released one (of the stuff-up) have been circulating suggests that it may very well be true. Unfortunate that the police thought it would be so easy to cover up.

[age_master]

interesting... and scary

[Dark Hunter]

I always thought there was more too it, because, if their story had been true, why hadn't they realeased video footage of it? They have cameras everywhere, so they obviously had the vision. If these reports are right, that's pretty freaky...maybe everyones just so hyper about stuff happening again..

[King_Ponting]

thats really really bad...

[Swervy]

yeah it is terrible...however I will still maintain that is is a symptom of the times at that moment ie everyone was particularly nervy at that time, and a complete breakdown in proper procedures, as opposed to a symptom of inherent racism within the police force like some people claimed a few weeks back

[Pothas]

but how did all the stories of him volting the ticket barrier and wearing a bulky jacket come from was it just total fabrication? if so that is very serious