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Thread: Anniversary of one of the biggest modern day attrocities

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    60th Anniversary of one of the biggest modern day attrocities

    It is the anniversary of one of the biggest modern day attrocities committed by man : Nuclear bombing of Hiroshima. May the victims of those rest in peace and may the world never commit such attrocities.
    Last edited by C_C; 06-08-2005 at 06:29 AM.

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    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Not going to disagree with that. Tremendously significant day.
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    I'm not sure it's technically an atrocity, it was war and one side had a better weapon than the other. It's certainly sad and significant tho.
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    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    sounds like an atrocity to me piscine, may the victirms rest in peace.


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    Hall of Fame Member _Ed_'s Avatar
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    A truly horrible event. Complete destruction of a large area of the city and huge loss of life, and many lives since have been wrecked by birth deformities caused by the radiation.

    A frightening thing is that 30,000 nuclear weapons, each tens of times more powerful than that one, exist in the world today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine
    I'm not sure it's technically an atrocity, it was war and one side had a better weapon than the other. It's certainly sad and significant tho.
    It definately qualifies as an attrocity and i dunno why some people couch it by saying 'it was war and one side had better weapons'..... it was a terrible loss of civillian life who were deliberately targetted. So what it was war ? Al Qaeda have declared war on us.....applying same argument would mean that its okay for them to target civillians.
    Thing is, some of the most prominent Americans at that time, like Eisenhower and McArthur subsequently said that there was no military reason for dropping the nukes and even went far enough to insinuate that it was a personal act of vengeance from President Trueman, for the greatest American military humiliation of the century : Pearl Harbor.

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    International Regular King_Ponting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    It definately qualifies as an attrocity and i dunno why some people couch it by saying 'it was war and one side had better weapons'..... it was a terrible loss of civillian life who were deliberately targetted. So what it was war ? Al Qaeda have declared war on us.....applying same argument would mean that its okay for them to target civillians.
    Thing is, some of the most prominent Americans at that time, like Eisenhower and McArthur subsequently said that there was no military reason for dropping the nukes and even went far enough to insinuate that it was a personal act of vengeance from President Trueman, for the greatest American military humiliation of the century : Pearl Harbor.
    It was really the japaneses' fault. They bombed pearl harbour when america at that stage wasnt even involved in the war. If the Japanese didnt do that then the americans wouldnt have bombed them. simple as that.

    Having said that the political heirachy of japan should have suffered not innocent civilians..

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    The debate about whether it was the right thing too do or not will never be resolved but everyone can agree that it was a terrible event that should never happen again

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    It was really the japaneses' fault. They bombed pearl harbour when america at that stage wasnt even involved in the war. If the Japanese didnt do that then the americans wouldnt have bombed them. simple as that.
    Thats like saying it was really America's fault for 9-11. If they didnt support Israel, america wouldnt have been bombed.
    tit-for-tat is a petty mentality and an injustice against you doesnt justify(though it provides motive but not justification) an injustice from you.
    Oh and declassified CIA documents, that anyone can get their hands of (through freedom of information act) shows that America KNEW of the Pearl Harbor raid as a 'very likely possibility' atleast a week before it happened and 'definite incomming strike' 48 hours before it happened, yet did nothing to prevent it.
    Simply because war is business and while many american politicians were pushing for war, american public wernt willing to go to war, since its them, not the politicians who pay the price of war.
    Last edited by C_C; 06-08-2005 at 01:40 PM.

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    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    I think, in all honesty, the two nukes & the fire-bombing of Dresden were arguably war crimes. Deliberate targeting of civilians with doubtful miltary value. I also think tho that the actions hastened the end of the conflicts in Europe & the far east.

    One could make a case that the bombs actually saved lives by shortening the war, so in that limited way they served a purpose.
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    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Ponting
    It was really the japaneses' fault. They bombed pearl harbour when america at that stage wasnt even involved in the war. If the Japanese didnt do that then the americans wouldnt have bombed them. simple as that.

    Having said that the political heirachy of japan should have suffered not innocent civilians..
    Dude Pearl Harbour was a military target, Hiroshima/Nagasaki weren't. Besides It was USS Ward which attacked a japanese submarine first.

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    One could make a case that the bombs actually saved lives by shortening the war, so in that limited way they served a purpose.
    Even though that is faulty logic from a moral standpoint IMO ( its like saying lets wipe out palestine or israel, for every few days a fanatic from palestine or a zionist from israel makes events that leads to death or destruction), i doubt its factual accuracy.
    Hiroshima and Nagasaki saw 300,000 innocent civillians die and Dresden saw dozens of thousands die( i dont know the actual estimates)......i doubt that if those nukes wern't dropped or if Dresden wasnt fire-bombed and the confrontation was limited to battlefield engagements then the # of dead would go past 300,000.

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    International Regular King_Ponting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanz
    Dude Pearl Harbour was a military target, Hiroshima/Nagasaki weren't. Besides It was USS Ward which attacked a japanese submarine first.

    Forgive my minimal knowledge on the particular subject, but i actiually didnt know that. Having said that i think the general consensus on the bombings of hiroshima etc, did possibly shorten the war and in the end save live, albeit westerners lives.

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    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_C
    it was a personal act of vengeance from President Trueman, for the greatest American military humiliation of the century : Pearl Harbor.
    Indeed. And If Japan had not surrendered after Nagasaki, Truman was going to drop more nukes until the Japanese surrendered.

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    Yes, it most definately shortened the war.
    No question about it.
    But does it justify it ?

    Today, we are in a so-called 'war of terror', that pits islamic fundamentalists on one side and zionists plus the west on another.
    Everyday there is a suicide bombing in Iraq or palestine or Afghanistan that slowly but surely chips away from the west's reserves.
    If we use 'shortening the war' argument, why dont we just nuke Iraq/Afghanistan and the whole islamic world ?
    It would shorten the war obviously.

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