Be The Government...

[vic_orthdox]

Now, this is not a statement on my thought of abortion, but this was an interesting exercise that someone gave to a few of us at a leadership conference thing. Now, this is just from memory, so if it turns out I'm technically wrong with the situation, then so be it. The gist of the idea remains...

A young mother is about to have her eighth child. Of the previous seven, three have serious mental disabilities, two are deaf and one of those deaf children are also blind. She has had these babies to a number of different fathers, as many as 6. She has found to have syphillis as she readies for birth. Already, the government is becoming agitated at this case, having been highlighted on current affairs shows on how she has been sucking up government payouts through funds for being a single mother, which increase each time she has a child, as well as these children having problems requiring further cash.

The idea that government could force the child to be terminated, because of the high likelihood that the child will have some sort of disability has been raised. Worries about the quality of the life of the children have been raised, one mother having to care for so many children with so many needs, and "recklessly" getting pregnant. You, as the Minister for Social Services, have been lumped with the task of whether or not to enforce termination, the other option to be let the child be born (obviously)....

What Do You Do??

[Neil Pickup]

Think you should delete that extra snippet and see the responses first!

[age_master]

im against abortion in all forms (it is murder) with exceptions in cases or rape. If the mother wishes to behave that way than that is her choice.

[andyc]

Originally Posted by age_master

im against abortion in all forms (it is murder) with exceptions in cases or rape. If the mother wishes to behave that way than that is her choice.

that sounds very much like your saying its all the woman's fault. they might be pressured into it, or be practicing safe-sex.

anyway, in my opinion the mother wants an abortion, and the father (if he should be in a position to have a say [ie. didn't rape or abuse the mother]) agrees, then she can.

[Top_Cat]

I'm pro-choice so therefore the number of kids to have, etc. is the choice of the parents or in the absence of a father, the mother. I understand the 'drain the government' argument but it's the stereotypical 'slippery slope'. For mine, within reason, any government should avoid making a value-judgement on the lives of its citizens as much possible unless that value judgement is productive, not destructive.

[steds]

Originally Posted by age_master

im against abortion in all forms (it is murder) with exceptions in cases or rape. If the mother wishes to behave that way than that is her choice.

Exactly

(that was very catholic-ish of you, Age )

[Mister Wright]

Originally Posted by Top_Cat

I'm pro-choice so therefore the number of kids to have, etc. is the choice of the parents or in the absence of a father, the mother. I understand the 'drain the government' argument but it's the stereotypical 'slippery slope'. For mine, within reason, any government should avoid making a value-judgement on the lives of its citizens as much possible unless that value judgement is productive, not destructive.

Agreed.

[marc71178]

Originally Posted by age_master

im against abortion in all forms (it is murder) with exceptions in cases or rape. If the mother wishes to behave that way than that is her choice.

But why should the state fund them?

[Deja moo]

I know who this eighth child is you are referring to, so I'll just shut up.

[BoyBrumby]

Originally Posted by Deja moo

I know who this eighth child is you are referring to, so I'll just shut up.

I've read it before too, but I can't recall who the child grew up to be. Gaaah!

[FaaipDeOiad]

Originally Posted by Top_Cat

I'm pro-choice so therefore the number of kids to have, etc. is the choice of the parents or in the absence of a father, the mother. I understand the 'drain the government' argument but it's the stereotypical 'slippery slope'. For mine, within reason, any government should avoid making a value-judgement on the lives of its citizens as much possible unless that value judgement is productive, not destructive.

Agreed.

[KennyD]

Originally Posted by steds

Exactly

(that was very catholic-ish of you, Age )

If it was more catholic-ish he wouldn't have included the bit about rape, and instead let all women be not allowed abortion.

My decision is to allow the women, and women alone (no men involved), to make the decision whether to abort or whatever.

[Deja moo]

Originally Posted by KennyD

If it was more catholic-ish he wouldn't have included the bit about rape, and instead let all women be not allowed abortion.

My decision is to allow the women, and women alone (no men involved), to make the decision whether to abort or whatever.

I dont know whether we should be going into this now, but are you not in favour of the father having a say in certain circumstances ? Its his child too.

[age_master]

Originally Posted by marc71178

But why should the state fund them?

without government funding they would be completley stuffed. i dontr know about other places but in Australia Gievrnment finding isnt' actually that high considering that she had 8 kids and it had to go that many ways i would say that they would be around the poverty line still which isn't a very high standard of living.

[FaaipDeOiad]

Originally Posted by Deja moo

I dont know whether we should be going into this now, but are you not in favour of the father having a say in certain circumstances ? Its his child too.

I don't think the father should get a say in the decision to abort, simply because it's a decision that involves the body of the woman and not him. To put it another way, if the father had a say, he would (assuming there was disagreement) either be telling the mother to abort a child she wanted to have, or telling her to have a child when she didn't want to, neither of which is reasonable, given that it is her body and anybody else telling her what she can or cannot do with it is clearly unfair.

I do think however that fathers should have a legal option to opt-out of parental responsibility during the period in which an abortion is still legally obtainable. If a woman becomes pregnant unintentionally she has the option to abort, have the child and put it up for adoption, or keep the child and care for it. A father has, for all intents and purposes, no options. A father who opted out of parental responsiblity would obviously have to sign a document precluding any parental rights as well, similar to a mother who puts a child up for adoption.